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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Ta1kinPeece · 06/11/2017 17:49

Collector
I struggled mid afternoon when colleagues passed round the cakes
That one is EASY to deal with ......
Ask yourself ..... did all of your colleagues wash their hands before touching the plate Grin
You'll never be tempted by shared office food again Wink

I get through fast days with gallons of drinks - tea, water, more tea

Mum157 · 06/11/2017 18:02

Need some advice. Been doing 5:2 for nearly 2 months and lost about 3lbs in that time. I got to point where I'd lost about 6lbs, but then put a few back on. I've been fasting for 2 days each week since I started....so it's obviously not going well.
Mon-Fri I have 2 FDs and eat pretty healthily the other 3 days. The weekends tend to be a bit of a free-for-all, with less healthy dinners and normally quite a bit of wine.
As you can imagine, I'm getting quite disillusioned with it all. I thought I would be able to fast twice/week, eat healthily in general, but splurge a bit at the weekend. I guess not, though. If I'm going to have to give up on the wine and relaxed weekend, I might as well go to SW or WW, no?
Any advice please? I'm aware that it's probably just a case of "stop eating/drinking so much at the weekend" though. Thanks!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/11/2017 18:03

Welcome, collector Smile and well done on resisting the cakes
To paraphrase tip, remember us and chant to yourself:

"communal food is garnished with poo crumbs & snot flakes" Grin

FD tip: If you feel lightheaded or have a headache, glug a teasp Marmite (10 cals) from the jar
It replenishes salt & minerals that tend to get low during fasting, due to the reduced food volume. It also boosts B vits.

Also, keep drinking water and limit fizz to 1 glass or 1 x 330 ml can per day, max.

Scales:
Yup, you can weigh as often as you like, but I recommend only monitoring weight the morning after FD2, naked first thing in the morning after loo, but before eating or drinking anything.
The scales need ro be in the same place every time, on a level hard surface, not carpeted.
Also, for digital scales, count to 3 after switching on, before you step on. Then keep still and no leaning in any direction.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/11/2017 18:16

Mum157 It does sound like you are eating back the FD calorie deficit on NFDs

Someone with TDEE 2000 has a deficit of 3000 cals from 2 FDs, the classic 1lb per week that most 5:2ers average longterm.
If you are used to eating a lot above TDEE, then it"s easy to eat an extra 3000 cals over 5 NFDs
Many women - especially if you are short / sedentary / middle-aged - have a lower TDEE and hence less than 3000 cals to eat back.

So, I suggest one week of mfp, especially the weekend, in your case, to check this.
If you Calc TDEEE* this is the amount your body burns daily, so your NFDs should roughly average this; or you need to retrain habits.

Weight loss is dominated by calorie intake, whether 5:2, SW, WW or any other WOE
The next most important factor is type of calories: alcohol and sweet / junky carbs tend to pile on a bit more weight, especially around the middle, than the same cals in healthy choices.

So, if you want to have the same weekend intake on SW or WW, you would need to make up the FD calorie deficit in some other way.

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeece · 06/11/2017 18:20

Mum157
You'll only lose weight if you have a total calorie deficit across the week. There is no way around that bit of physics.

Back in the mists of time, the weekly plan I used was
Monday = 500 calories
Tuesday = TDEE -10%
Wednesday = TDEE-10%
Thursday = 500 calories
Friday = TDEE
Saturday = yes, well, lets not ask
Sunday = TDEE
Never add back exercise, always assume your portions are bigger than they are.

Basically you have to accept that one or maybe two "splurge" meals a week are the limit in a healthy long term diet.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/11/2017 18:21

The idea of 5:2 is to eat "normally" on 5 days, which includes sensible amounts of wine & other treats.
Most 5:2ers don't need to mfp
However, some find they need to retrain their "normal"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/11/2017 18:22

and as tip says: "NO snacking between meals, ever"

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 06/11/2017 18:26

I am pleased to report that my insatiable appetite appears to have been sated at last. MILs roast dinner yesterday did the trick and i ate like a normal person today. FDs will be Weds and Fri this week.

I also walked more today than any other day this year, according to my phone. The tendon in my bad ankle is bloody agony.

CroakingCrocus · 06/11/2017 18:37

Yes BCF has been super helpful with advice.

FD finished with all calories eaten. Lunches for tomorrow are packed and in the fridge. I have to make DD's lunch and my own right after eating when I'm still full.

Drinking sparkling water & lemon now as I'm quite dehydrated. Spent much of the day travelling and in meetings and didn't get to drink as much water as normal.

I've been over eating on non fast days of late which will not be helping with weight loss. I had pizza on Sunday and it made me feel very groggy all day. That's despite the fact it was a very thin crust one from a trendy North London pizzeria that does proper Naples style pizza. But on the upside there was absolutely no snacking that day and I had a very small dinner as a result.

Thankfully all the Halloween candy hanging about the house is not to my liking.

quackingduck222 · 06/11/2017 19:48

Wow, this thread has moved fast today!

Hello to all the new people.

I've not really been with it today, forgot to take my medication again last night and had a awful nights sleep of about 2 hours so have been hanging today but managed to make myself busy and surprisingly have just eaten and have sailed through my FD today.

The scales were not my friend this morning. Back up into the next scale bracket, undone 3 weeks work but back on it again.

No more sweets, no more treats and I will behave myself.

I'm going to re read the book for inspiration as it's a bloody good read. And get back into the game.

Hope you all have had a good day.

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 06/11/2017 19:57

Hi
Oh I was so ready to recount my fabulous fast day.
And I was just about to join TIP in a (what's left of) November alcohol abstinence, then DH suggested we go out for lunch (which we haven't done for literally years due to Dcs etc) so that was that
But I did cycle about 15K and I think I'll aim for b2b FDs this week Shock
Quacking you're right, the book is inspirational.
And really, even when I've not lost weight I think I've probably still done better than if I wasn't trying this WOE. I would likely be the size of a house by now.

1moreRep · 06/11/2017 20:20

Hello to all

Drk i don’t blame you your lunch date sounded well over due

i’m doing my fast day tomorrow as my dp made me dinner tonight steak, fries and veg mmm - the gym was also very brutal tonight

i have a question re snacking - can i have a cup of tea with milk? i need this

BigChocFrenzy · 06/11/2017 20:27

1more If tea with milk makes this WOL sustainable, then do have that.
Just include the calories on an FD.

Try it unsweetened if you can and choose skimmed milk, or unsweetened almond or other nut milk

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 06/11/2017 20:31

Quacking which book is this? There are several on 5:2. I have the BSD book by molsley

Ollivander84 · 06/11/2017 21:10

Dropped off the thread. Did a decent workout today and my first run since spinal surgery Smile
Pilates tomorrow

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2017 06:33

That's good news about your run, ollivander

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 07/11/2017 07:39

Wow! I haven't looked at the thread for a day or two and it's gone nuts! No time to catch up on it now but will try later!

Didn't do my usual Monday fd yesterday as we had family round for tea - will do it tomorrow instead. Trying very hard to relax a bit more whilst not going back to old eating habits now I'm trialling maintenance. Not sure how I'm doing but guess time will tell.

Good luck all Tuesday fasters.

quackingduck222 · 07/11/2017 08:02

Purple it's the 5:2 book by Mosley.

It's called the Fast diet by Mosley and Mimi Spencer with a measuring tape round the words.

I originally downloaded the wrong book and mine was American. I just couldn't read it, was hard to understand and really hard going.

But I love the Mosley book, it's so easy going. He's a great writer.

I also rewatch the documentary on BBC I player once a year to as againni find it really inspiring and it reconfirms just why I'm doing this.

Anyone who's not watched it, watch it.

1moreRep · 07/11/2017 08:48

morning all fasters

i’m going to try to be really strict re the no snacking

my weight loss is really showing in my abs so i’m super inspired today!

purpleviolet1 · 07/11/2017 08:54

FD here today. Skipping breakfast. Not sure about lunch yet. Having fish and veg for dinner

HLBug · 07/11/2017 09:19

Checking in for a a Tuesday FD

peachypips · 07/11/2017 09:25

Hi all,

Like others I haven't kept up!

Very successful FD yesterday- for the first time on a FD I didn't feel hungry and I didn't crave food emotionally. It's taken a few weeks! I am also finding that I have so much energy on my FDs. Digesting food slows me down. I'm finding keeping busy is so important.

Have been keeping track of my cals on NFDs and agree Purple that it is a real eye-opener. I needed to do it! Mum157 - just do your TDEE for a week and it helps you see how much you are eating. This is what I've had to do despite initial resistance, but I wasn't losing weight so have had to!

NFD today. Nothing to eat so far.

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2017 12:02

Well done on your FD, peachy
Sounds like your body is adapting to fasting and you also getting a grip of the NFDs

Congrats on your abs NSV, 1more
Cutting out all snacking will help this

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeece · 07/11/2017 13:11

more energy on fast days
most definitely.
One of the things that both DH and I enjoy about 5:2 even after all these years.

purpleviolet1 · 07/11/2017 17:47

Kitchen closed at 557 calories. Had one meal - fish steak, 2 fish fingers, beans, carrots, broccoliSmile

Tell me, are Young’s or birds eye fish ok or not really?