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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Ollivander84 · 03/11/2017 12:27

NSV. In standard width Hunter wellies which I haven't worn since I was about 19

BigChocFrenzy · 03/11/2017 12:38

Well done on your welly NSV, Ollivander

You've given your WOE some welly Wink

Welcome, Megs Smile
Many on these threads have lost that amount and much more.

We're a friendly bunch, always someone around for support
Lots of info in the OP - see the "How to Start" section, which also has calculators and recipe links if you like ideas

OP posts:
HLBug · 03/11/2017 14:41

Welcome Megs Smile

SingingGoldfinch · 03/11/2017 17:15

Welcome Megs and great NSV Ollivander!

Happy Friday everyone!

purpleviolet1 · 03/11/2017 18:55

That’s great thank you BCF!

peachypips · 03/11/2017 19:10

Hi Megs! A few fairly new people on here.

Ollivander - I'm so sorry you lost your job. That really sucks. I hope you are looking after yourself- Christmas garden centre?

purple - how is your mum?

NFD today. Have stuck to my TDEE! Second day in a row- what is happening to me?!

Bought the Pioppi Diet book- there are some lovely recipes in there. Yum

HLBug · 03/11/2017 19:33

FD was going really well...I’d closed the kitchen at 465 calories... then DH appeared with a takeaway from the local Turkish. So I succumbed and had a garlic pitta (for strictly medicinal purposes though - my sinuses are definitely a lot clearer!) Ending on about 650 kcals instead - not the end of the world.

Hope everyone has had a good Friday.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/11/2017 21:30

Sounds a sensible FD, bug and a sensible NFD, peachy

OP posts:
TiredFedUpGrumpy · 04/11/2017 05:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bestbees · 04/11/2017 06:23

Hi. I was here last year and lost weight a d was happy. Fell off the wagon and am a stone up ConfusedAngry

FD today. Target to be under 10stone by end of the month -7lb to loose. Thinknit will be easish as ate a ridiculous amount yesterday!

HLBug · 04/11/2017 07:17

SV a 2lb loss this morning and down to 11 st 1lb. The 10s are in sight!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2017 09:13

Well done on your SV, bug
Nearly in the 10 somethings

Welcome back, bestbees and good luck on your FD
Nearly everyone of us needs a maintenance plan after reaching goal

OP posts:
purpleviolet1 · 04/11/2017 10:05

That’s great HLBug!!

NFD for me again. Don’t feel well enough at the moment. Ds got a sickness bug 😕

HLBug · 04/11/2017 19:19

So I’ve done an accidental B2B Shock Not hungry today and super busy so genuinely didn’t realise I’d not eaten until 4pm. So I just decided to keep going and wait for dinner.

I’m sure I’ll be starving next week to even out my non-hunger this week - it all evens out eventually!!

Sorry to hear your DS is poorly purple. It sounds like you’re looking after a lot of people at the moment- remember you need some kindness too.

Usual Saturday FD for you BCF? What is the weather like in Germany? Any snow yet?

purpleviolet1 · 04/11/2017 20:32

Over indulged today coming in at 2085 calories, 500 more than tdee Sad

purpleviolet1 · 04/11/2017 20:32

Peachypips dm is better thank you xx

Bestbees · 04/11/2017 20:39

Hmm not great here as we had bonfire party but think under 850cals. Ok with that as easing me back in. Will do thursday fast and maybe skip breakfast mon a d tues to even it out.

Ta1kinPeece · 04/11/2017 20:56

Evening all,
just randomly reappearing on the thread to tell BigChoc that as well as still fasting most weeks, DH and I have decided to not have any alcohol in November.

I know from my MFP logs that up to 1/3 of all my calories normally come from booze Shock
so it will be interesting to see if I lose any extra weight
am currently about 3 kg over my happy weight
but even 4 days in, both of us are snoring less and sleeping better.

Saturday night takeaway curry without beer was pretty strange though!

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 05/11/2017 08:40

Talkinpeace I could do with cutting my alcohol intake. It feels great but I am crap at abstaining. (Btw got through to colleagues in BVI and was so pleased to hear they're getting back on their feet but not a good time to visit)

I've had some shocking NFDs but kept to my FDs and too scared to weigh but feel a bit slimmer and had 2 separate comments about looking as though I've lost weight so happy with those as NSVs
On phone and can't read all posts but wishing you all well

BigChocFrenzy · 05/11/2017 09:10

That's great, tip
Enjoy your dry November

Anyone want to join tip and her DH for the rest of the month ?
Have a go, DrK ?

No snow yet, bug probably Christmas, Jan, Feb
I've enjoyed a week staycation, so no fasting.
Our monthly gym brunch buffet is 12:30 today (yes, it's lunchtime, but mostly breakfast foods)
Well done on your unplanned b2b - and an NSV with not eating just for the sake of it

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/11/2017 09:18

I have 1-2 glasses weekly during the Federweisser season, Sept-Oct but otherwise don't drink
So I have 10 dry months, Nov-August !

However, I'm going no-added-sugar from tomorrow until mid-December.
Anyone else ?
(I allow one small square daily of an organic 92% cocoa choc I discovered here, since that has hardly any sugar for high oxidants content)

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 05/11/2017 10:43

I'm 2 weeks into a 6 week no booze stint, and am no added sugar for the very most part anyway. However I cannot stop eating. I'm fucking ravenous. I blame the baby and his pre-5am ways.

1moreRep · 05/11/2017 11:10

well after an awful week i’ve lost weight and in total i’m 7lbs down so far!! i’m so happy!

i don’t drink unless i’m out abd i’m going out tonight so ill abstain from abstaining lol!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/11/2017 12:31

Well done on your SV, 1more Good progress

OP posts:
quackingduck222 · 05/11/2017 15:09

I've had a really bad week. Eaten out twice and been quite greedy.

Had a bit of a hectic week and can't remember if I've fasted or not. I did yesterday so I'm having a b2b fast today as I honestly can't remember if I did fast Thursday or not.

I weighed myself this morning and I'm pretty much back upto my restart weight so need a kick up the backside for this week.

I'm struggling ATM, finding I'm either gaining or staying the same.

Next week requires more effort and cross my fingers for a better week!

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