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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
SingingGoldfinch · 02/11/2017 09:14

Morning all - hope everyone is doing ok.

I weighed in this morning and have sts - so now 9st10 after three weeks of 6:1 maintenance- when I started maintenance I was 9st8 so I'm up two pounds on that. I'm not sure whether to have one final push to get to 9st7 or just to settle for where I've got to and try and keep up the maintenance plan. Hmmmmmm!

purpleviolet1 · 02/11/2017 09:26

SV today - 9 stone 13.8 lbs Grin

Was going to try a FD but not in the right frame of mind with everything going on. Feeling really tired as well. So will stick to a NFD instead.

SingingGoldfinch · 02/11/2017 10:05

Well done Purple! Great SV!!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 10:47

Congrats on your SV, purple Striding into the 9 somethings Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 10:48

Aim for a healthy NFD with lots of veg and water, to support your stressed bod and have an early night if you can

OP posts:
peachypips · 02/11/2017 14:14

Well done Purple! Look after yourself.

Ouch - we've had that virus. Ugh. Hope she feels better soon.

FD went well yesterday. Today butternut squash soup with bacon and Parmesan sprinkled on top. Half an avo and nuts. Calculating it all on MFP. Have a TDEE of about 2000.

BCF - that's more or less what I'm doing- good carbs not bad, no sugar. Feel better for it!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 17:02

Well done, peachy

I read the thread by an emergency response worker, Ollivander
I didn't realise the disgusting behaviour you have to put up with from some callers. You are strong Flowers

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 02/11/2017 18:57

Um. Well. I lost my job today
Am ignoring fasting until I stop feeling

OuchBollocks · 02/11/2017 18:58

Fucking hell olivander :(

Ollivander84 · 02/11/2017 19:00

Reeling. Not feeling. But both are good
< eyes up gin >

HLBug · 02/11/2017 19:30

That’s awful Ollivander Confused hope you’re ok

purpleviolet1 · 02/11/2017 20:00

Ollivander not read your thread but it sounds horrendous Confused so sorry BrewCake

SingingGoldfinch · 02/11/2017 20:21

Oh no Ollivander - that's utterly awful. So sorry.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 21:44

I'm so sorry ollivander Flowers
What a shock for you; no wonder you're reeling.
I hope you find another job v soon that suits better

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 02/11/2017 21:57

Thanks. Been there for a decade so it's my identity really. Feeling very lost

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 22:00

Oh that's so rotten for you Sad

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 22:06

If appeals process / unfair dismissal / redundancy is relevant, some helpful employment lawyers post on www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 02/11/2017 22:25

It is Smile I have a v good union and will be going down the appeals process. Mostly licking my wounds at the minute and mainlining tea (no sugar, don't panic) Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 02/11/2017 22:58

That's great about your union
and well done for resisting sugar
Now catch up on your beauty sleep - called that for good reason - and enjoy the civilised hours, no night shifts for a while Smile

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 02/11/2017 23:01

No chance of sleep yet sadly but I have a rubbish channel 5 Christmas film I recorded to keep me company. The cat is alternating howling at me and insisting I wear him as a scarf Confused

purpleviolet1 · 03/11/2017 08:45

BCF when you get a chance could you please respond to me on the exercise thread? Thanks so much

HLBug · 03/11/2017 09:34

Hope you managed to get some sleep last night Ollivander

I’m checking in for a FD today. I’m full of the cold so no appetite and looking forward to soup for lunch. I normally do a Thursday Fast but went on a day trip to a country house yesterday that has a farm shop and farm kitchen on-site. Fresh venison burgers and homemade scones...it would’ve been rude not to join in and support the local estate Wink

purpleviolet1 · 03/11/2017 10:08

HLBug your two fd’s ahead of me and I just joined! Lol

Didn’t feel up to a FD today again so decided to have another NFD. It’s better to do that than just binge altogether right? I’m listening to my body

BigChocFrenzy · 03/11/2017 10:56

I just answered your exercise questions, purple I'll keep a closer eye on that thread Smile
Yes, if you're not in the mood for an FD, better to have a sensible NFD

I hope that nasty cold goes quickly, bug
Soup sounds good. Also tea and keep drinking water

We're all rooting for you, Ollivander
Sounds like your cat is trying to be supportive too, in a feline scarf kind of way
probably just reminding its slave it has expensive tastes to support

OP posts:
MegsMog · 03/11/2017 11:54

Hello - can I join you all, please?

I've had a shocking few months health & weight-wise following a number of pregnancies and miscarriages. Following a MMC (found earlier this week) we have decided to take a big break from TTC. It's time for me to look after myself a bit again, I think. Since getting pregnant with DD in 2014 I've been pregnant or breastfeeding ever since, so I'm looking forward to focusing on my body being my own again for a while.

I'm planning to start on Monday (with Monday and Wednesday as fast days), and will combine with 16/8 as I've done it in the past and I found it quite do-able. Once my body has recovered enough I'm planning to add a weekly yoga class and a weekly fitness class, too.

I've got a good 15kg to lose Blush so will need all the support - and accountability - I can get. Will read back through the thread a bit now!