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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
HLBug · 29/10/2017 14:38

Is that hours or days owned? Are you doing 20/4 eating window each day? Or 20 NFDs and 4 FDs? How much do you have to lose?

ownedbySWD · 29/10/2017 14:58

Sorry, not very clear! Hours, so 20 hours fasting, 4 hours eating. I'm managing roughly 1500-2000 calories a day. I started at 16st and want to get to 11st.

quackingduck222 · 29/10/2017 17:37

Bloody hell owned 13lbs in 20 days is a huge amount.

Yesterday went off track. DH suprised us with a takeaway but somehow it didn't show on the scales.

Today has been a mini fast as I've been so busy but it's good as I've not been hungry once and not eaten yet.

Two planned meals out this week coming but another busy week ahead so I'm not going to worry. Will just make the FDs go quicker.

Official weigh in day tomorrow and I'm feeling quite positive despite 2 takeaways as the rest of the week has been really good.

ownedbySWD · 29/10/2017 18:50

It's insane, quacking. But I've just undone about half of that loss with dh's birthday meal!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2017 20:08

Well done on your SV, owned

You've lost just over 4lb per week
Many folk lose 4-5 lb weekly on Mosely's BSD (800 daily cals) and are fine, so you should be ok too on 1500-2000,

People ntbo lose at very different rates and when you have quite a few stone to lose, we've had folk before who've averaged that before for the first month or more.
I remember at least one person who lost 10lb the first week of 5:2 or ADF
It depends too on how much retained water one starts with - You probably feel less bloated now.

The rate of loss will slow down, probably quite soon e.g. that birthday meal Wink

If you are feeling well, carry on and lose a bit more, while you're in the swing
BUT if ever you feel stressed and too hungry, then extend the eating window.
As you get near to goal, I advise moving to 16:8 if you haven't already by then

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 29/10/2017 20:15

Wow owned!! That's amazing! Well done!

Feeling like a bit of a piglet here and actually looking forward to fd tomorrow! Big Italian meal out with the family on Friday, huge slab of cake and a curry yesterday and a big fat roast followed by crumble today! Pretty sure I'm well over tdee for the past few days and am very aware that this sort of behaviour will not cut it as part of a long term maintenance plan! We all have our blips though so I'm not going to stress too much and I'm back on that fast train tomorrow!

ownedbySWD · 29/10/2017 20:49

Thanks for the tips, BigChoc. I have done 16/8 successfully in the past, and very likely will return to that. I just wanted to really push myself towards more mindful eating and impose a strict structure that helps me be more aware of what goes in my mouth. So much of this eating lark is tied up in emotions.

Singing what I do love about IF is how easy it is to get back into the swing of things. A few slip ups don't worry me so much, you know? :)

HLBug · 29/10/2017 21:39

owned you sound very determined! Congratulations on such a big loss so far Halloween Smile

ownedbySWD · 30/10/2017 04:57

Thank you HL. Once I get in the right mindset I can't be stopped! It sometimes takes years a while to get there first. Grin

1moreRep · 30/10/2017 07:54

bugchoc i love how much sport you do- we sound similar in that respect. i love crossfit and running, usually diets make training so difficult but i feel this woe is so much easier.

i have been to london with my kids this weekend so i have indulged-- it was worth it and i managed a 10k run yesterday as i had friday and saturday rest from the gym.

i am on a fast day today but training this morning and in a meeting this afternoon- i'm going to try the almond milk thing as a drink of tea is the one thing that saves me on FD

well done to all the sv and nsv - ill abstain from weighing myself until friday to give me motivation all week

purpleviolet1 · 30/10/2017 12:05

Owned that’s amazing! Do you eat twice in that 4hr window?

My birthday today so not doing a FD today. Did fancy going all out but don’t want to undo any hard work when I’m just getting started so will be sensible but enjoy my favourite foods

ownedbySWD · 30/10/2017 12:20

purple part of why I'm doing this is to retrain myself to only eat until satisfaction, not until my stomach is about to burst. For whatever reason, I have spent years ignoring my body's satiety signals and forcing myself to eat beyond comfort levels.

Still working on it. When I break my fast, I eat too much at once and then can't eat for hours. So it's usually just one meal a day. Blush

I know this sounds like disordered eating, but I am working hard to dial it back and eat sanely. I have experienced small victories in this arena, like last night with DH's birthday cake, I didn't finish my slice because I wasn't even enjoying it. That is HUGE for me; in the past I would have finished it off anyway because -- sugar.

peachypips · 30/10/2017 12:45

Hi all and welcome Owned - you sound like you are doing great!

FD today. Trying the Waitrose low cal cup-a-soup for lunch at 50 cal instead of my Bovril. It's ok! Chicken daal for dinner.

quackingduck222 · 30/10/2017 14:37

Yeah big well done Owned that's amazing.

I've lost 1.6 pounds this week. And that makes about 5lbs over the last two weeks. I was hoping for 2 this week but it doesn't really matter. As my mindset is starting to change and that's a good thing.

I've got a event at the beginning of November and we've paid extra for meet & greet so that means photos. It's the kick up the backside I needed and pushing on now. I do well with deadlines, never quite get there but gives me focus.

Hope all the FDers are having a good day.

Ollivander84 · 30/10/2017 14:40

Am hoping for a sub 1000 fast day today. Crossed fingers! Wasn't planning it but off food so figured I would go with it Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2017 15:42

Happy birthday, purple Flowers

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2017 15:44

Well done on your SV, duck

Good luck to all fasters today

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 30/10/2017 18:57

Happy birthday purple! 💐🎂 Hope you're having a lovely day with all your faves!

Your determination is really impressive Owned!!! I reckon we all feed off it!

Peachy - Waitrose low cal cup a soups are my go to fd lunch at the mo! I've been adding a shake of pepper to mine as they are a bit bland but they're not too bad! I have mine with a rice cake.

Quacking - nothing like a big do with photos to motivate hey! I'm sure you'll look fabulous!

Fd here - itsu crystal noodle soup for lunch (136cal) and lentil veggie chilli for tea. That'll make it about 580cals and I'll have a cup of tea later too. Hope everyone is having successful FDs.

purpleviolet1 · 30/10/2017 19:43

Thank you!

CroakingCrocus · 30/10/2017 20:01

Stepping back into the thread after a week and a half off. I was off work last week and couldn't figure out how to do FDs / I didn't want to do FDs.

Everyone seems to be doing very well.

Today was a FD and I've just sent DH out for more sparkling water. Hoping not to have gained on my time off. I wound up snacking some days when normally I'm so good at holding out and waiting for meals. And there's been loads of meals out, takeaways, etc. I am more sensible at choosing things but can't say I've held back the whole time.

On the upside, I had one of the best meals of my life at am amazing Thai restaurant. That was definitely worth forgoing my usual fast day for.

HLBug · 30/10/2017 21:25

Planning my usual FD tomorrow... here's hoping the baby has reprogrammed her body clock by then. The 5.10am start to today was not fun and meant me and the toddler ended up having two breakfasts. Stupid daylight savings.

purpleviolet1 · 30/10/2017 22:22

HLBug joining you for FD tomorrow!

OuchBollocks · 31/10/2017 05:21

FD today but the baby has been up since 4.45 again and I'm tired.

HLBug · 31/10/2017 06:20

Ouch we made it to 5.40am today...which is progress! Sending BrewBrewBrew

Purple glad to hear it Smile

purpleviolet1 · 31/10/2017 06:30

Yes, semi- pleased with NFD yesterday as went over tdee by about 300 cals Blush could’ve been worse as it was my birthday.

Sorry to hear the babies are up , ds was up during the night but seems to be sleeping just yet