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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Ollivander84 · 16/10/2017 16:18

Big - that's what I'm struggling with! I thought I would hit TDEE today Grin

If I'm on a late shift I can eat at 2/3pm and then not again until 8pm. In the morning I'm in bed asleep and I can't eat again after my shift until 3am which kicks me out of 16:8/14:10 🤔🤔

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2017 16:33

Ollivander I'd suggest you go for TDEE on one of your days off, which is anyway a good choice to chill

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2017 16:34

Flowers to all emergency service workers who have to struggle with such unsocial and disruptive shifts

OP posts:
Ollivander84 · 16/10/2017 16:42

Yes they're not the easiest! I may go for TDEE tomorrow then as I have a Pilates class early on but then a nice day at home
Wednesday is a 3hr horse ride planned then 4 shifts at work

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 16/10/2017 18:08

Veg broth consumed and
Kitchen closed at fewer than 300 calories by my reckoning. Actually I think it's easier for me in some ways to have very low cal day/ one "meal" than planning anything more complicated or appetising. Today I have had the luxury of being busy with various errands so that definitely helps

peachypips · 16/10/2017 18:48

Olli you look fantastic. Looking forward to having a waist like that!

Hi Quack!

FD today. Bovril for lunch, 2 litres water, 100 cals milk for hot drinks and a vast Caesar salad- romaine (loads!), chicken breast, dressing and a bit of parmesan. Apple after.

quackingduck222 · 16/10/2017 20:33

I think lesson learned from this is everything in moderation nothing is forbidden as I'm either 100% on track or 100% off track then I tend not to continue with my fast days. Then I binge. It's terrible.

I am extremely pleased that I have survived today food came in a smidge under 500 but I forgot to count my olive oil I pan fried my mushrooms in.
I didn't use much tho maybe 2 tablespoons. Still a win in my book.

I originally started fasting last July, ive missed a couple of weeks here and there but one thing I have found is that since fasting I've not been ill. My family have all come down with colds at least twice and a sickness bug and it's not touched me, normally I would get it. Is that perhaps because of the fasting? I'm a bit curious.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2017 21:46

Well done, DrK, Goldfinch

DrK Many folk find one simple, even fairly boring, meal on FD works better than 2 meals. Whatever suits you

Goldfinch Fasting boosts "autophagy" which is the body getting rid of some old, wornout cells, to help create new ones.
This helps boost the immune system and reduce inflammation

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2017 21:48

Just remember, duck that if an FD goes off track, don't give up
A miniFD within 1000 cals or even a day within TDEE is a good result when you have avoided a binge

OP posts:
hollolew2 · 17/10/2017 08:05

Marking my spot today been back on the 5:2 for 3 weeks I’ve lost 1 kg but about 3% of my body fat I’ve learned to accept the NSV’s the same way as I’d accept weight loss got a really busy day so hoping for a good one SmileSmile

1moreRep · 17/10/2017 10:21

fast day today and i'm glad it's chocka at work

MazDazzle · 17/10/2017 11:40

HI folks! I’ve been off the thread for a while because I’ve been ill with a kidney infection. It’s been two weeks since the start of it. Feel better now, just tired and I have no appetite. For the moment I’m trying to gradually build my way back up to TDEE. My weight is plummeting, which is not how I want to lose it!

Well done on reaching your pre-baby weight bug! That’s a huge psychological milestone.

peachy your Caesar salad is making even me drool, so hopefully, my appetite will return soon!

Ollivander84 · 17/10/2017 12:12

Apparently moaning about my stalls on this thread is the way to get it to budge HmmGrin because it's happened again!
New lowest weight :) only 0.4 of a lb down but I'll take it

HLBug · 17/10/2017 12:30

Sorry to hear you've been poorly Maz Flowers

FD here today and I've just had my new found favourite FD lunch of eggs and smoked salmon. First tried last week (or week before?) and it's just lovely and filling. Feels like a exuberant treat rather than a FD portion!

I have my nephew's birthday party this afternoon kill me now and I will resist the party food / cake.

MelanieCheeks · 17/10/2017 15:08

Abandoned yesterdays attempt after being sent home cos of storm Ophelia. It was a day of cuddling round a big bowl of soup and toast.

Today I have discovered hotel chocolat's teaolats- flavoured tea bags that smell and taste amazing!

And I'm enjoying a soup made of leftover boiled cabbage and carrots, heated in a bovril stock cube.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2017 18:22

Sorry to hear about your infection, Maz I hope you feel well soon Flowers
Obviously, don't fast until you feel fully fit and energetic - fasting takes energy.

Try to help your body repair itself with healthy TLC:

  • Drink lots of water
  • Cut out fizzy drinks, whether diet or full fat - nearly all contain benzoate, which is probably not good for the kidneys
  • Avoid junky food - sugary crap hinders your repair / immune system
  • Boost fish, veg, also beans, peas, lentils
  • Have full fat Greek yoghurt.
  • Enjoy nuts, berries, apples, pears
  • Drizzle roast veg or salads with extra virgin olive oi

To maintain muscle during your lack of appetite, I suggest 10 minutes strength training, not HIIT, on days when you feel capable.
Also, don't do any cardio atm, other than a 20min walk outside, when you and the weather are ok.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2017 18:28

Well done on your SV and bodyfat NSV, Hollow

and on your SV, Ollivander

  • more the reward for persistence than posting, I think Wink but posting keeps up morale

That's great to enjoy your FD menu, Bug

Poor you, sounds dreadful weather, Melanie Chunky veg soup and tea should hit the spot
Here, we've been enjoying a few lovely sunny Autumn days, 23C yesterday !

OP posts:
1moreRep · 17/10/2017 19:06

hello all FD here and i'm dying lol currently on 500 cals and just finished a hard crossfit session- i won the board for the girls thou so i'm happy that fasting does not affect my sports performance

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2017 20:47

Well done on your sports NSV, 1more Glug some water

OP posts:
jengles81 · 17/10/2017 21:43

Wow, lots of svs and nsvs going on! Well done all Smile

And thank you bcf for your advice a few pages back. Have persevered with 5:2 vs 4:3, and have sv and nsv to show for it - am now down to a bmi of 24.9 and back into some work trousers that I haven't worn since aroud Easter Smile My period started at the weekend so think some of the semi-stalling was water retention.

Also feeling quite proud of myself - we had a company training event at a restaurant with an amazing (mostly vegan/vegetarian) buffet. I had one plateful, resisted seconds when all around me went back for more, and also had only one (admittedly mahoosive) scone out of the selection of 4 or 5 incredible cakes. Went out for drinks afterwards, so am still over tdee for today, but have not had any dinner as I just don't feel hungry enough - this wouldn't have stopped me previously!

MazDazzle · 17/10/2017 21:49

Thank you very much for the advice BC! The recommended food list is really helpful and I have my own kettlebells, so can definitely do some strength training.

1moreRep · 18/10/2017 06:08

well done jengles i would have struggled

MelanieCheeks · 18/10/2017 06:45

Breakfast prayer following a FD:

I hae meat and I can eat, and sae the Lord be thankit Smile

SingingGoldfinch · 18/10/2017 07:11

Sorry to hear you've been poorly Maz and good to have you back!

Well done on resisting seconds jengles - always a challenge! And we'll done on your sporting victory 1More! Fantastic achievement, and on a fd too!

No usual weds fd here now I'm on 6:1 maintenance but planning to make weds a mini fd - very light lunch followed by a normal (but modest portion) tea. Thinking that might be a good way to ease into maintenance rather than going straight into a total 6:1 pattern! We shall see how it goes.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2017 07:11

Melanie Grin Halo Enjoy your brekkie

maz Let us know how you are doing Smile
Some kettlebell exercise videos towards the end of the 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #33* OP

Congrats on your SV and clothes NSV, Jengles
Exactly the right thing to do on a company jolly - join in the socialising & networking, have one scone so you don't feel deprived (2 or 3 are genuinely not 2 or 3 x the pleasure)
Another important NSV that you didn't eat when no longer hungry, even if it's available & delicious

OP posts: