Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 70: Is there is a lean person inside you struggling to get out, who is currently sedated with chocolate & wine ? Join us to find that person - without giving up all your favorites

990 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2017 12:24

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: BF Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
MelanieCheeks · 10/10/2017 22:45

Cauli steak

It's just thick slices of cauliflower roasted in the oven. I didn't use as much oil as this recipe.

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 11/10/2017 06:01

Thanks melanie I'll be trying those

MelanieCheeks · 11/10/2017 14:05

Cheeky little NSV this morning - fitting into a size 10 skirt!

HLBug · 11/10/2017 14:55

Ohh well done Melanie - treat yourself to some new shoes to go with it Wink

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 11/10/2017 15:07

Well done Melanie that's fab news

SingingGoldfinch · 11/10/2017 15:21

Good work Melanie!! That's such a good NSV!!

I'm on a nfd today but am eating very sensibly after my slight eating-fest yesterday! No brekkie and a beetroot salad for lunch followed by a mandarin. Mediterranean cod for tea. Currently trying really hard not to snack!! It's my first weds not fasting for a very long time and weirdly doesn't feel right!

Hang in there all you Wednesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/10/2017 20:05

Congrats on the size 10 NSV, melanie The reward for all your hard work.

Sounds good, goldfinch Also, note
No snacking is the best tip for both weight loss and maintenance

OP posts:
MelanieCheeks · 11/10/2017 22:15

Thank you! twirls

It's my birthday tomorrow so I may have a shopping trip planned. Smile I'm 5'2 and hovering just over 10 1/2 stone. My target is to be hovering just over 10 st by Christmas, and to get to 9 1/2 next year, and maintain there.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2017 07:45

Happy birthday, melanie Flowers
Have a lovely day and enjoy your shopping trip

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 12/10/2017 07:56

Happy birthday melanie :)

DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 12/10/2017 08:01

Happy Birthday Melanie

SingingGoldfinch · 12/10/2017 09:29

Happy birthday Melanie! Enjoy your shopping trip! Your plan sounds very sensible and I reckon you'll definitely nail it!

Did my usual Thursday weigh in this morning after my first week of 6:1 and have sts (give or take an eighth of a pound!) - feeling quite encouraged by that!

1moreRep · 12/10/2017 11:39

happy birthday melanie!

i weighed myself this morning and couldn't remember my starting weight but was 71.3 - ive been for a small 4k run as my legs were aching.

ive only had warm drinks so far but i'm hoping the fast day goes well as my soup is delicious that i'm planning to have later.

HLBug · 12/10/2017 12:09

Happy Birthday Melanie Flowers

Congratulations on STS Singing - that's really positive!

FD here and it's absolutely freeeeeezing today, which I guess is meaning my body is working harder to stay warm? I am more than a little bit peckish as a result...but will carry on regardless. Brrrr.....

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2017 12:39

Well done on your 6:1 maintenance week, goldfinch That sounds promising

Good luck to all the Thursday Fasters !

OP posts:
peachypips · 12/10/2017 14:21

Well done Melanie and happy birthday!
NFD today. Eating yummy pistachios.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2017 17:14

DrK I spotted your post about press-ups on our 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #33* and I've given some tips
Press-ups are the best exercise for all round strength and you can do them anywhere.
So that's a great move to build those up

OP posts:
DrKrogersfavouritepatient · 12/10/2017 18:11

Oh thanks BCF I did fifteen big proper press ups last night (in three "batches" of five iyswim. Really tough

1moreRep · 12/10/2017 18:18

i'm mid fast day have been having soup, milk and veg but i'm feeling really faint- any tips- i literally want to curl up and sleep but i'm working until midnight

1moreRep · 12/10/2017 18:42

ive had some soup i may end up at 650 cals but i was flagging- plus ive done 12000 steps so far

CroakingCrocus · 12/10/2017 19:08

Happy Birthday Melanie!

Second FD of the week is done & weigh in is tomorrow. SV is 2 size 12 coats, bought on sale, which fit me just fine. I should have waited to see if I'd drop more weight but I was tired of wearing a size 14 raincoat about everywhere.

Off to brush my teeth soon to stop cravings.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2017 20:15

Well done, DrK an excellent exercise NSV
You'll be amazed how quickly you progress now you've made this good start

Tomorrow let your muscles rest or have a cardio day, no more lifting.
Then press-ups again on Sat or Sun.

Practice and good form are key: back straight, don't stick your bum in the air - it's rude Grin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2017 20:21

Congrats on your size 12 NSV, crocus
Naturally you want rid of some old clothes which are too big now - on sale is a good compromise, as you did, or charity shops

1more I suggest next FD you have more solid food, as that is more filling than liquid for the calories
Also for satiety, boost protein - fish or eggs are especially good on FDs, also beans (no sauce), lentils, cottage cheese
Weakness, like headaches, can often be helped by glugging a teasp Marmite (10 cals) to boost salt & other minerals

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 12/10/2017 20:24

And aim for 2l water on FDs, in addition to tea, coffee.
Fizz may taste nice, but it doesn't hydrate as well; also usually contains benzoate, which consumption should be minimised
I recommend people restrict fizz to 1 glass or 330 ml can per day

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 12/10/2017 21:03

FD tomorrow. Period started today, I feel horribly bloated. If someone could just tell me exactly what to eat for 800 calories that would be superb :)