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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
kitkat321 · 30/05/2017 17:36

FD today - this will be my 3rd and I'll come in about 600 calories.

Felt ok until I went to the gym at lunch - had a light and free yoghurt for breakie and a small banana before metafit then some ww soup - starving now though - had to gobble down a handful of blueberries to keep me going.

Counting down to dinner but hoping I can push it or for another couple of hours once I'm home and distracted running after the toddler - will be early to bed tonight too!!

MazDazzle · 30/05/2017 19:12

Just had my FD dinner: spicy chicken strips with salad.

Managed 5K today. It was tough going and I had to stop twice to catch my breath. I made it though. 34mins 35 secs. My aim is to do 5K without stopping, then under 30mins. Give me HIIT or kettlebells any day over running. I hate it! With every step my body wants to give up.

Going away with my husband tomorrow for his birthday - no kids! I cannot wait. Peace, perfect peace.

CroakingCrocus · 30/05/2017 20:05

Hello I'm joining in. I'd like to lose 2 stone or so. Am currently a size 14 at 5'8 and 11 stone, 7 lbs. Would like to get down to a size 10-12.

I've done around 4-5 fast weeks so far after trying and failing after a couple of weeks last Autumn. I've lost some weight but am not sure what I started at as I didn't have a scale at the time. My BMI is now in the high end of the normal range at 25.1.

I've been finding it easiest to have a 29 calorie miso soup at lunch and save all the rest of my calories for dinner. It hasn't been that hard except for today. It's half term and I was out and missed the miso soup lunchtime window. I wound up having an early dinner at 430ish and now my tummy is rumbling. Currently drinking sparkling water and planning an early bedtime.

Also need to work on stopping myself from eating back the calories on NFD.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2017 20:48

Well done on your slim 12 NSV, calzone

Kitkat Your FD meals sound very high GI, which would increase hunger and maybe weakness
I recommend next time that you cut down to just 1 portion fruit on an FD - the berries - and boost veg & protein
Try not to have snacks, especially fruit on its own - always include protein with it, to lower impact.

Well done on your run, Maz
However, if you really don't like running, could you switch to cycling, or add an HIIT cardio session instead (no weights) ?
Or swap one 5k run for 20 mins of HIIT sprint intervals, to increase fitness and speed

OP posts:
MsRinky · 30/05/2017 20:48

FD today, after a long weekend away at a sunny music festival where I most definitely did not stick to NHS alcohol guidelines. I didn't snack though!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2017 20:54

Welcome, crocus Smile
Sounds like you've made a good start to FDs. Many folk like to save nearly all cals for a good supper.

If you think your NFDs are over TDEE , you could mfp for one week, to highlight portion size and calorie bombs like treats & alcohol.
If you'd rather not mfp, then simply writing down before you eat or drink anything with cals makes you think a bit if you really need say a 2nd helping.

What can really help NFDs is our best 5:2 /IF tip: NO snacking ever
Eat meals and if you want treats or alcohol, even fruit, have them as part of the meal.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/05/2017 20:56

Well done Tuesday fasters.
Time for a drink of water, then clean your teeth to avoid temptation
Have an early night, to maximise FD benefits

OP posts:
pangolinfan · 30/05/2017 21:49

Good FD today after a long sociable weekend of probably going over my TDEE. I have got into the habit of having a hot bath with a cup of tea straight after dinner on FDs. Gets me out of the kitchen and feels like a sort of reward after fasting. And I don't have to watch the children eating dessert!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 07:19

That's a good system, pangolin

It's ideal to do pamper yourself a bit on FDs:
. At least an early night with a relaxing bedtime routine

Then depending on taste / lifestyle, spend time on yourself for say any of these:
. massage - I enjoy feet & hands at the gym
. personal care - hairdo, nails, pedicure, hair removal ....
. short meditation, relax to music, good book ..
. a relaxing bath before bed, with spa mask / bubbles / aromatic candles

OP posts:
anoldcharterorsomething · 31/05/2017 09:18

Morning All

Can i join please? I'm 5 ft 7in and 14 stone 4lbs Blush and i did my first FD yesterday (514 cals) Off to read the OP for tips, wish me luck!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 09:56

Welcome, oldcharter Smile and well done on a good 1st FD
Most important tip: No snacking, ever
Have treats, alcohol, even fruit only as part of a meal

It's motivating to break your goal down into several min-goals, like every 5 kg, so you have lots of things to celebrate.
We give an extra big cheer when someone drops into a lower bmi class

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 31/05/2017 10:44

Just catching up on some very good SV and NSV victories. Big welcome to al the newcomers. It's a good place to be.

Can't believe that May has gone by so quickly - and what a difference a month makes to getting back into the swing of this WOL.

And then along comes a holiday to potentially derail everything. I'm a fussy eater at the best of times and a holiday with breakfast and dinner included usually means me filling myself up with pastries for breakfast and dessert at dinner. It doesn't help that wine and beer will be cheaper than bottled water and coffee/tea. Cutting out confectionery, avoiding sugar and fat laden pastries/desserts and moderating my alcohol intake has meant I've lost 6 cm from my waist since the end of April and I need to make sure I don't put it back on. I'm panicking slightly which I know is irrationally silly of me.

Anyway, back to reality. Have a good day everyone. Try not to stress the small stuff.

pangolinfan · 31/05/2017 11:36

That sounds really challenging Granny. I'd normally be the same as you on holiday, especially where meals are included. Don't know what to suggest other than if you like eggs at breakfast time, make yourself have those first- hotel buffet breakfast omelettes are usually yummy and filling. And don't panic too much. I had a week in Italy in April soon after I started this WOE, managed one FD (day of travel) tried to be semi sensible (not pizza every night although we were in Naples and not ice cream every day, lots of fresh fish and veg) but otherwise did not deprive myself of anything and only put on 2 lbs which came off again quickly. Good luck!
Welcome Oldcharter . Hope you will find this thread as inspiring as I do.

OuchBollocks · 31/05/2017 11:46

Hi, busy few days, dropped off the thread there. Wow 6cm in a month is amazing granny I'm on my 3rd FD, I seem to find it easier to rein in my eating on FDs than NFDs.

anoldcharterorsomething · 31/05/2017 11:52

thanks for the welcomes Grin

so 1 question I have after reading the OP and the thread, in order to make this WOL work, say for example i have a night out on friday which i do can i 'save' some calories from my NFD days to compensate for maybe a few tipples over the NHS guidelines Gin so i will fast tues and thurs, eat maybe 400 cals less each NFD (my TDEE is 1950) - will this work or not? I do have a fairly busy social life and that will involve a few nights out, but i don't want this to undo all the good work - does that make sense?

Thanks

GrannyGrown · 31/05/2017 18:45

Agree Ouch - FDs are so much easier to control once the brain is on-board!

The no snacking and reduction in sweets; pastries; crisps and alcohol recommended by BigChoc has worked incredibly well for me - for every kg weight lost 2cm has gone from my waist - and thinking about it, the 10kg heavier I am now compared to 40 years ago correlates nicely to the 19cm extra around the waist too!!

AnOldCharter - One of the great things about 5:2 is that (within moderation) anything's possible food/alcohol-wise. I would say it's fine to save some of your NFD calories for Friday socialising but maybe try to log your calories (including alcohol) for a while using MFP. I was quite shocked when I started at just how small a portion size can be. The other thing to remember is that the greater the calorie deficit, the faster the weight will reduce. Well done on an excellent first FD! Think there's quite a few of us doing Thursday FD so you will be in good company!

GrannyGrown · 31/05/2017 18:46

Forgot to say Maz hope you're having an amazing away-day!

quckingduck22 · 31/05/2017 19:17

impromptude fast day for me and will close the kitchen on 300 cals.

I tried to do some excersize today. Running, did my warm up and started running and I don't know how to explain it but my fat was wobbling all over the place. My thighs and stomach. It was so uncomfortable.

It's so strange when I do a pinch a inch on my stomach it's big and hard. Now there seems to be a lot less but it's really squidgy and I can move it from my tummy to my waist. No idea what the hell is going on but decided to do some toning instead.

Will try again tomorrow and may try some tight running leggings to hold it all in place.

OuchBollocks · 31/05/2017 20:30

Sewing my mouth shut to finish my (breastfeeding) FD on about 850 calories, pleased with that especially since DS appears to be going through a bit of a growth spurt and has hardly been off the boob, plus did the longest walk that I've done since I injured my ankle.

calzone · 31/05/2017 20:58

522 calories today.

Pleased with that.

Grifone · 31/05/2017 21:34

Hi everyone, I haven't signed in since the last thread. I had a low BP the last two weeks so had to give fasting a miss. I have just finished my second FD of the week and am also thrilled to report that I have dusted down my 30 Day Shred DVD and completed day two today. I also took my measurements and will have my first proper weigh in tomorrow. Welcome to all the newbies - this is a great spot for support and motivation.

Mrstumbletap · 31/05/2017 21:57

Hi all, I haven't been on here for a few months, and the pounds have slowly crept on. Now 9st 12.5. I am so much more comfortable half a stone lighter. As my weight goes straight on to my stomach and an extra half a stone on my stomach is uncomfortable and makes me feel crap.

The 5:2 works for me, and the fantastic support I received from you when I started last year and lost a stone was what spurred me on, but I haven't done a fast day for ages. So I'm back on it.

Today I had a brown baguette, with salad, chicken, pickles, and coleslaw in it, no butter. I'm calculating that at 500-550 calories and that's it. Just water and a cup of tea.

So need to go to bed as the hunger pains have started. Blush

BigChocFrenzy · 31/05/2017 22:33

Welcome back, MrsTumble You've already nailed your 1st FD, so you're right on track

Well done on your FDs too, Calzone, Ouch, Duck, Grifone and all the other Wednesday fasters

Ouch As you are BFing, you can have 1000 cals on FDs. Might help you survive the growth spurt Wink

OldCharter NFDs are "maintenance" days, so that you don't eat back the FD calorie deficit. So, TDEE is just a rough average over those 5 days, i.e. some days over, some under
Many people "bank"calories on weekday NFDs so they can have a more indulgent weekend
It's always best to avoid exceeding the NHS alcohol guidelines significantly, on these regular social occasions

OP posts:
anoldcharterorsomething · 01/06/2017 07:23

Thanks everyone for the advice. I know I drink too much alcohol when I go out Blush so will try my hardest to bring this down. Managed to save over 500 cals yesterday and today is 2nd fd, feeling a little peckish already (I'm guessing that's because I saved some cals) so lots of water and diet fizzy drinks (are these allowed) to get me through today! Good luck to any other fasters today Smile

OuchBollocks · 01/06/2017 08:46

I'm not an expert but I suspect that diet drinks aren't a good idea, apparently the sweetness in them causes an insulin response which isn't met by sugar, so your blood sugar drops and you're left craving something sweet even more. What about fizzy water with a squeeze of fresh lime and some mint leaves?