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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
LightsOnNotIn · 05/07/2017 20:05

For fast days when you don't want to cook, M&S do a ready made meal called Smoky pulled pork bowl. 354cals. It's not in the fridge bit. Last week I had it with enough ready made lentils (those in a pouch) to take the total up to 500cals.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2017 20:13

I have my main meal at lunch, because I usually train in the evenings, then have a minimeal of veg soup or Greek yoghurt & berries

Shamelessly lazy minimeal for FDs: Blush

When it's very hot in the evening, as soon as I'm home, I take my fav butternut squash & veg soup out of the fridge, pour into a disposable picnic dessert bowl, then eat it without heating.
Lovely and refreshing on a hot day, when I can't face cooking or washing up - I just bin the bowl.

OP posts:
CroakingCrocus · 06/07/2017 07:31

BigChoc I take it fizz refers to soft drinks and not sparkling water? I've weaned myself off soft drinks and drink them very rarely. Sparkling water I drink a lot of.

I'm down nearly 12 lbs in 5 weeks. Not going to make my goal of getting down to 145 lbs by my holiday, which is in just over 2 weeks time. The weight loss has definitely slowed down.

But given I've not started doing more exercise I guess I can't complain.

Sarahlouboo · 06/07/2017 07:54

12lbs in 5 weeks is amazing Croaking! Well done!

Another 1lb off for me this morning so a total of 6lbs so far and now the inches are coming off too - 1in from waist and hips each. Really chuffed although massively light headed this morning!

So now the really tough bit of my week starts - I know I can fast (I am like you Granny, too stubborn to give in Grin) but it is the other days I have been struggling to stay sensible.

Met someone yesterday who was doing a different version of 5:2 - 5 days of around 800 calories (most of which was meal replacement shake) and two days eating as they liked. I thought it sounded hellish but each to their own!

Sarahlouboo · 06/07/2017 07:55

BCF not sure I can get on board eating cold soup ConfusedSmile!

quckingduck22 · 06/07/2017 08:53

Blimey croaking 12lbs in 5 weeks is amazing.

Sarah I did similar to what you've described 5:2 with meal replacement shakes. It was alright but the problem is teaches you nothing about nutrition and calories. And they are expensive if you buy a half decent brand. I found normal protein powder has less carbs and less calories.

I've found something on eBay that might come on handy for some of you. My rings are too big after searching for ages the name of what I was looking for is "ring snugs" put a order in as I'm afraid I'm going to loose them.

Thursday today so I'm fasting. Nothing planned the next week so I'm going to up my game and see if I can make a dent in the last 5lbs.

badasscafe1 · 06/07/2017 09:10

thanks for the tip lightsout- I find those incredibly useful - and congratulations to all on the losses- is motivating me to continue. I am really surprised how quickly my appetite has dropped. long may that last! Quick question- I am having (even on NFD) a cappuccino for breakfast at work- seeing big variations in calorie counts on MFP-- so just cappuccino from work coffee maker with semi-skimmed- am allocating 72 cals - does this sound ok? many thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 09:46

Well done, sarah on your SV and on your inches NSV

Well done on your SV, Crocus That's a quick rate of loss at your weight.
You'll have had an inches NSV too

badass It could easily be 150 cals.
You need to check for the specific brand of cappuccino that your office uses, then measure how much per shot - can be difficult.
Any chance of FDs you could make your own own at home and take it in ?

You also need to measure out and calorie count the milk - and any sugar - easiest to do this before you leave for work and take the day's allowance with you, in 2 little pots

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 06/07/2017 09:47

Amazing weight loss croaking!! You must be so chuffed with that!

Quacking - I reckon you're going to nail that last 5lb!!!!

Fd here and I've drunk 1L of water already!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 09:48

Lattes, cappuccinos, fancy coffees are often calorie bombs - best to consider them as a dessert really
On FDs especially, they are not filling for the calories they use.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 09:56

crocus Sparkling plain water is miles better than any other fizz;
even flavoured water needs to be in the 1 per day total.

To reduce the (already reduced) risk of eroding teeth enamel, best to use a straw even for your sparkling plain water: BBC on sparkling water and other fizz

OP posts:
TheMShip · 06/07/2017 10:05

Thursday's usually a FD for me, but as it's my birthday I'll be doing that tomorrow instead. 14st10, I am 4lb below my pre-baby weight and still going down a steady 1lb/week. Yay! Also teething 15 month DD slept through, best present! Grin

Lovely to hear lots of SVs and NSVs this week, you're all amazing!

SingingGoldfinch · 06/07/2017 10:38

Happy Birthday MShip!! Hope you're having a lovely day!! And congrats on getting below your pre-baby weight too! That's amazing!!

badasscafe1 · 06/07/2017 10:45

back to cappuccinos- sorry- when you say brand of cappuccino do you mean coffee beans? didn't realise the calories could vary between beans! (all machine does is grind beans and add steamed milk) and I take with 1 sweetener.... I was guessing majority of calories was in the milk serving- but as is steamed I can't really tell how much milk is used.

GrannyGrown · 06/07/2017 11:15

Croaking 12lb in 5 weeks is amazing - never say never to those last few lbs before your holiday. And still time to fit in a few toning exercises to complement your inch losses!

Happy birthday MShip - hope you have a lovely day.

I thankfully seem to have woken up in a better mood today, so at the moment it's FD as usual. No cravings at the moment .....

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 11:59

badass I thought your machine had a cappuccino mix. Ok, so the calories are just in the milk, assuming no added choc powder
Rough estimate is 130 cals for cappuccino with only skimmed milk, no sugar or added choc - this is what is generally quoted online.
However, impossible to say accurately.

Definitely a poor choice on FDs - a waste of calories on drink, which is nearly always less filling than food

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 12:00

Happy birthday Mship Flowers Enjoy your day
Congrats on your SV and excellent progress

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 12:07

badass If you want a hot drink from the work machine on FDs, I recommend a tea, coffee or double espresso, no sugar, milk, cream, or added choc etc.
Coffee machine or coffee shop drinks can really hinder weight loss, due to the significant under-estimation of calorie intake. Also portion size.

There are a couple of folk iirc who liked 3-4 cups of milky unsugared tea on FDs, no food. So that worked for them, but doesn't for most fasters.

OP posts:
CinderellasBroom · 06/07/2017 20:39

Hi all! I've been lurking rather than posting, but most impressed by all the SVs and NSVs.

I'm definitely down in the 58kg bracket consistently now, and while I haven't had a chance to measure inches, my freshly washed linen trousers today weren't at all snug on the waist as they usually are. Luckily they have a drawstring waist, though they're rather less work-smart hoiked in and tied with a bow. Still, a nice NSV. I've had my ready meal and closed the kitchen on (I guess) around 450 calories - 400 for the meal and roughly 50 for almond milk in my tea.

I'm happy with this weight, but I think I'll keep doing 5:2 until the kids are off school (another two weeks) as that'll give me a bit of margin for the summer holidays, and less to do in the autumn.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 20:50

Congratulations on your SV and clothes NSV, cinderella
You are stable at goal Flowers !
You are wise though to keep 5:2ing, if you know you tend to gain over the summer holidays

My standard maintenance advice for those taking a break from 5:2 is to weigh at least weekly and to resume 5:2 - without delay - if you regain 4 lb.
Otherwise, it accumulates and becomes daunting, so people tend to keep putting off tackling the situation.

What helps to maintain: no snacks, drink plenty of water, keep within nhs alcohol guidelines

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 06/07/2017 23:04

Congrats on the SV Cinderella! That's an amazing achievement!

Fd here today. I'm finding I'm getting a bit more relaxed about counting the calories - not because I'm eating more, but more because I have set things I eat on FDs so I know I'll be within 500cals if I stick to those. It might be a bit ad hoc but hopefully it's an ok approach.

Hope everyone else's FDs have gone ok.

GrannyGrown · 06/07/2017 23:26

FD turned out okay in the end. Only slight wobble was when I went to listen to a voicemail message and saw OH had left a danish pastry by the side of the phone!

Had a good kettle bell class at midday - even managed about half of the routine with the 8kg bell instead of the 4kg so I'm banking that as a NSV.

Excellent SV and NSV Cinderella. To be honest I find the thought of maintenance quite scary - probably because when I've tried it before I've ended up slipping back into bad habits. Seems though my body is less accommodating of a couple of extra kilos now and puts them all around the waist, so at least I'll have an undeniable early warning signal.

pangolinfan · 07/07/2017 07:43

A week of ups and downs, but I was a pound down yesterday after a gluttonous weekend of summer parties and cocktails. 11 stone 3 from 12 12 mid March. Half a stone or so to go. Had a great NSV yesterday. I'm in a play at the end of the month and went to my costume fitting. Costume lady had identified three possible dresses for me to wear (play set in 1920s) and said that she liked a clingy black crepe one best but (casting a professional appraising eye over me) thought it looked a bit too small. IT ONLY FITTED LIKE A GLOVE. It made me absurdly happy.

SingingGoldfinch · 07/07/2017 09:21

Yay on the costume fitting Pango! That's amazing and what a boost! I'm sure you will look fabulous rocking the clingy black number on stage!

Good work on the fd Granny! Did you resist the Danish pastry?

Another lb here so I'm now 10stone1. I was 11st4 when I started a couple of months ago so really pleased!

MerricatsHouse · 07/07/2017 10:25

Congrats on all the SV and NSVs everyone! And happy birthday for yesterday MShip

Weighed yesterday and was another 1lb down. Also measured and have lost 3cm from my waist and hips since I first measured 2 weeks ago! So a good day for me going into what will be an indulgent weekend due to a birthday party meal and drinks.

Definitely agree with what others are saying, I can't eat anywhere near the same amount now as I used to - at first it was figuring out psychologically when I truly was hungry. Now as well as that I seem to stay much fuller for longer and can't eat 3 full meals a day. Yesterday we had a day off for DH's birthday and went out for breakfast, intending to have lunch as well after a few hours walking around. I didn't get hungry for lunch at all and easily went right through to dinnertime - in the past I would have probably had something sweet/carby and needed lunch, or eaten it anyway because it was that time of day. Glad to be out of that habit now.

Good luck to all the Friday / weekend fasters!