Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2017 22:52

Sounds delic, calzone

After my FD supper, I baked choc nut muffins using almond flour (lower carb and more nutritious)
I didn't have even a nibble Halo

In the hot overn, I'm trying Nigella's overnight roast tomatoes that MM mentioned in his BSD recipe book.
I'll have one with scrambled eggs for breakfast

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 02/07/2017 23:53

Hmmm, so I may have a difficult FD Monday.

Did my 10k today. No walking for first time ever. Full sun was brutal with very little shade. All credit goes to my DD who, when I said I had to walk, replied with "no walking - you don't need to walk". Celebrations afterwards included wine and ice cream (not necessarily in that order). Not pre-FD recommended.

Will catch up on weekend posts when I am slightly more compos mentis.

Sarahlouboo · 03/07/2017 07:00

Well done on the 10k Grannygrown! Especially in the heat and no walking 🙌🏻.

Have just been lurking as I have been busy. Suspect I have undone some of the good work last week - finding I am swinging a bit between good FDs and then stuffing my face so my goal for this week is just to take it a bit more steady on NFDs, maybe cook some different yummy (but healthy) food.

FD today - good luck everyone. Come on Grannygrown, we can do it!

LightsOnNotIn · 03/07/2017 09:53

Urgh. FD today. I find that 7-10am is the hardest, then I just seem to push through until I can eat dinner. I'm a little Hmm because I have put on 1kg in a week. I don't know why because I have stuck to my TDEE, and done 2 good FDs. Maybe it's constipation related Blush...time to get more water!

Sarahlouboo · 03/07/2017 10:17

I have also put on some weight LightsOn, hoping to flush it all out Grin

badasscafe1 · 03/07/2017 10:34

first FD today- not as prepared as I would like to be but no excuses- just doing it. Have access to lettuce, cucumber, tomato and carrot for lunch salad- not sure what else I can add to bulk it up as will be my main meal. have lots of plum tomatoes to snack on later in day.

Sarahlouboo · 03/07/2017 11:11

Can you pop to the shops and buy a packet of ready cooked chicken or prawns? Or a couple of boiled eggs?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2017 11:28

Congrats on your 10k NSV, Granny
Your DD probably has a good potential career ahead as a sergeant-major in the army !

Good luck on your 1st FD, badass
You need to add some protein - fish / poultry / meat / beans / hummus, cheese .... or you will be hungrier. Protein & fat lower the GI of a meal, which helps keep you going.

Try to avoid snacking on FDs - or NFDs too - it just keeps insulin raised and increases hunger.
Much better to save those afternoon calories and have another small meal - e.g. put all those tomatoes together and add a boiled egg say.

Sarah On NFDs too: No snacking
Eat meals, nothing between.
It lowers the total calorie intake, because people who snack rarely lower meal size sufficiently to compensate - because snacks keep insulin raised.

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 03/07/2017 11:37

Congrats on the 10K Granny! Such an amazing achievement, especially in the blazing sunshine! I think you more than earned your ice cream and wine!!!

FD here today. Things have been thrown off plan a little as had to leave work to pick poorly dd up from school and am now working at home - have usual small salad sorted for lunch but of course, there are cupboards full of food at home which there aren't at work! I'll need some willpower today!!

Good luck all other Monday fasters!

badasscafe1 · 03/07/2017 11:46

was surprised how calorific boiled eggs were Sarahlou... chicken sounds good if I can get out...

SingingGoldfinch · 03/07/2017 12:52

Think chicken probably has more calories than boiled egg badass? Plus boiled eggs really fill you up. Either a good fd salad accompaniment though. Tuna is one of my faves too!

badasscafe1 · 03/07/2017 13:13

take your point SG but as is my main meal I thought a some poached chicken would be more filling than an egg- i can just eat loads of hard boiled eggs (deviled eggs are my favourite) and they dont seem to fill me up as much. Do you mean canned tuna or tuna steak? already looking ahead to next FD on Wed- any tips or advice gratefully recieved- i really want this to work for me.

MerricatsHouse · 03/07/2017 13:14

FD today and found this morning surprisingly hard - I had to allow myself a cup of tea to tide me over which worked nicely. Usually I only have water on a FD and chew gum, but that didn't work this morning! It might be because I had an unusually 'good' weekend of NFDs. Had to take DS to a party Friday evening so ate light instead of the usual big meal / takeaway, on Sat I was strict on myself with the no snacking rule and cooked a proper dinner. Then yesterday I wasn't hungry until lunch and had dinner early with plenty of veg, so a long stretch without food overnight. I also did quite a long walk in the nice weather. My energy levels were unusually excellent this weekend, chances are it's related to making better choices.

Have to have an extra good week this week as am out on Saturday night for a birthday celebration and there will be no getting around the excess! Good luck to all the Monday fasters - half way there.

badasscafe1 · 03/07/2017 13:15

also- any recommendations for low calorie greek yoghurt? are there any brands that come in convenient serving sizes?

MerricatsHouse · 03/07/2017 13:17

That sounded bad - obviously I mean I only have water and chew gum on a FD as well as eating the 500 cals!

MerricatsHouse · 03/07/2017 13:23

badass I'm the same as you with hard boiled eggs, I can eat a ton of them in no time so one or two doesn't necessarily feel filling. I find I have more luck with omelettes, it feels like it goes a lot further on just 2 eggs. I have some (measured) cheese in it and eat it with a huge salad for 300 cals and it feels like a good meal.

badasscafe1 · 03/07/2017 13:27

thats a great suggestion merricats... and DH would enjoy as well- adding that one to my cheatsheet!

badasscafe1 · 03/07/2017 13:28

does anyone use low calorie dressing or just have salads plain/s&P?

Sarahlouboo · 03/07/2017 13:34

I have a squeeze of lemon and maybe some balsamic vinegar or glaze. If I have a couple of olives then the oil from them helps with flavour.

MerricatsHouse · 03/07/2017 13:46

Balsamic vinegar here too, sometimes measure out low cal mayo if I have spare cal allowance.

OuchBollocks · 03/07/2017 13:48

Hello everyone. Felt rough as hell all last week so only did one FD in the end :( Feeling a lot better now so back on the wagon, FD today. It's DD's birthday tomorrow and my parents are visiting for a few days, so the temptation to snack/eat junk will be rife. Must stay strong!

SingingGoldfinch · 03/07/2017 13:51

Balsamic here too. I don't find I miss the oil all that much. I'm an omelette fan for a FD meal too. I usually use two eggs and chop a mushroom or two into it then serve with a huge salad - so filling!

On the tuna front I use the tinned stuff in spring water - roughly 120cals for the whole tin. I either have it in a salad or on a small baked sweet potato mixed with fat free Greek yoghurt a very spring onions. Yum!

I buy Sainsbury's or Waitrose fat free (rather than low fat) Greek yoghurt. Both seem good!

SingingGoldfinch · 03/07/2017 13:55

Just spotted you've been feeling rough ouch! Hope you're on the mend now and that your dd has a happy birthday! Think you should be allowed a guilt free slice of cake at least!!

TheMShip · 03/07/2017 16:18

Oooh, baked sweet potato sounds lovely! I should give that a try with tuna & sweetcorn. Or avocado .... mmmm.

NFD today, but I am pleased to be properly hungry for my dinner already. Will eat with DH at 7:30 after the kids are down.

Two little NSVs for me this weekend - my bras have gone in one set of hooks and my belt can now do up on the 4th notch (not quite comfortably yet, but close!). And one big NSV, I was actually mildly constipated Sunday. Ok today, and it's 15 days IBS free!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2017 17:25

badass On FDs, avoid mayo or prepared dressings.
I use lemon juice / balsamic vinegar / cider vinegar

Greek yoghurt - imo more filling to have a little of the full fat stuff.

Low cal protein for FDs - WEIGH portions
. prawns / shrimps - great in salad or stirfry with veg
. tinned tuna - in brine, not oil
. smoked salmon
. skinless baked chicken breast
. v thinly sliced roast beef
. scrambled eggs / omelette
. low fat cottage cheese
. kidney beans
. tofu

OP posts: