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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OuchBollocks · 24/06/2017 09:24

I have been BETRAYED Shock DH has confessed that on our FD on Thursday, he went into work and troughed the millionaire shortbread someone made Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2017 09:55

Enjoy the weekend, everyone Smile
I'm having my usual Saturday FD, with afternoon pump class and maybe spin (depends on temperature).
Anyone else fasting ?

OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 24/06/2017 10:27

Croaking what a amazing loss.

Some amazing losses and NSV this week absolutely incredible.

BCF you were right about the weight gain I can confirm it's now gone plus a bit.

2lbs off this week total of 1st8.6

FD worked surprisingly well last night. I started eating my packed lunch at 4 but it was too early for me so I saved half for later. Good job I did take something as it had just one stall selling chips hot dog or burgers.

My only downfall was I didn't drink enough water yesterday but it was freezing so not so much of a issue.

Next week the weather is changing where I am so will hopefully get back into my gym as I'm trying to make gym a regular WOL.

Sarahlouboo · 24/06/2017 12:47

Singing - I really enjoyed it! Hope you enjoyed your takeaway and wine. I haven't had a drink for two weeks so feeling a bit giddy about the beer festival later.

Ouch - Grin but you get the moral high ground Halo

That's a great loss Qucking! Looking forward to being able to say similar. I am back on exercise next week, have decided to do 30 day shred on the days when I am not fasting.

Any opinions about fasting and sleep? My sleep has been bloody awful this week but it has been hotter than Hades so maybe that's it.

BCF - impressed with fasting on a Saturday! You sound super fit and healthy. What's your story if that's not too nosey?

HunkyDory69 · 24/06/2017 21:09

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pangolinfan · 24/06/2017 21:18

NO fasting here BCF and the DCs asked for pizza, but I have done well on (my) portion control (not theirs - 2 sporty, Skinny Minnies).
Sarah my sleep has been bad this week in the heat too, and usually tiredness weakens my resolve, but fasting has been ok - maybe it's made it harder making good choices on NFDs, but no disasters.

Another Parkrun pb for me today, which is 5 since I started this WOE three months ago. Sorry, I know I have been banging on about this, but I can't tell you what a pleasing (and unexpected) bonus it has been to be able to run faster without training harder just by not having to cart extra flab around.

BCF your calm and sanguine advice is wonderful. Thank you for your encouragement, suggestions and reminders. They are much appreciated.

pangolinfan · 24/06/2017 21:22

I should add Sarah that I do seem to wake early after my second FD in the week (Friday morning), but haven't yet worked out whether it's due to fasting, heat, work stress or DH snoring ( all could have been factors over the last few weeks - need a few "normal" weeks as a control)!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2017 22:05

Sarah I found in my early days on 5:2 that my weekends were sabotaging my progress.
So, I found a weekend FD a useful tactic, which I've kept in maintenance.

I'm nearly 61, long post-meno.
I'm a lifelong exerciser, never been overweight - and then meno happened
Calorie counting, low carb ..... nothing worked until 5:2

However, I must admit that I was actually researching health aging online, not weight loss, when I discovered that fasting was recommended by the leading researchers into aging and some chronic diseases.
I'm a STEM PhD - not biology or medicine - but I'm used to assessing scientific papers and the status of the authors. The science behind fasting is sound.

So, I started 5:2 and found weight loss was a happy side benefit.
I've been maintaining since about Easter 2014

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2017 22:10

Congrats on another park run pub and NSV, pangolin
That's one of the encouraging things about successful weight loss if you do sport: you get into a winning spiral of less weight to carry and improved fitness.

Well done on your SV, duck You are continuing the great progress
Are you also monitoring waist and hips now ?
Drink water ! Start tomorrow with a glass and remember to keep drinking through the day - take water with you everywhere.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2017 22:11

park run pb - I'm sure you didn't end in at the pub afterwards Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2017 22:18

Many people find they are hyper-alert when fasting, which can make sleep difficult until the body adapts - may take several weeks.

What helps sleep:

  • No caffeine - coffee, coke - after 3 pm
  • Stop exercise at least 3 hrs before bed. A gentle walk is ok.
  • Stop screens - phone, tablet, TV, gaming etc - at least 1 hr before bed. Cover up any gadget with blue light in the bedroom, e.g. alarm / clock.
  • On FDs, save some of your cals for supper. If you just have supper, 500 cals chosen sensibly makes a decent meal and that helps you feel sleepy
OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 24/06/2017 22:34

Well done on the park run pb pango - you have very right to be pleased! It's a really great achievement!!

NSV here tonight - I sing in a choir and tonight was concert night. We have to wear long black skirts and mine was handed down to me from a friend. It has always been on the snug side and getting into it a bit of a mission. Tonight I pulled it up and zipped it up with great ease - I could move and breath in it much more easily and it wasn't hugging my bum like it used to either!! I felt great!

SingingGoldfinch · 24/06/2017 22:36

Thanks for sharing your background BCF - really interesting to read. Your wise words are so valuable so great to know a bit about you.

pangolinfan · 25/06/2017 08:43

Great NSV singing. The pleasure of a zip which glides when it used to require tugging whilst holding your breath is not to be underestimated, especially when you are wearing the skirt on stage.

quckingduck22 · 25/06/2017 10:45

BCF your incredible and a wealth of knowledge. I had a thought last night if I wonder if BCF is MM.

Yes monitoring my measurements now, have been for a month only and it's fascinating. I'm measuring under bust rather than waist so I know where to get the tape each week. I went with thighs (widest point) again so I can get accurate measurements.
My stats are:
Under bust:was 35 inch now 33
Tummy: was 35.5 inch now 30
Thighs: was 41 now 35

I've been on amitriptyline for 5 months now mainly for headaches but also depression/ low mood. I have found recently I have been occasionally forgetting to take them with no side effects. I have now halfed my dose and am going to see how that goes.

Sarah - thanks, impressed with 30 day shrewd that looks HARD. I also take a FD on the weekend as I get a couple hours alone and I binge but by adding the FD that has broken the habit.

Well done goldfinch what a amazing feeling.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2017 15:39

Congrats on your great inches NSV, duck especially 5.5" from your tum
That's a major change in a comparatively short time

Congrats on your skirt NSV, goldfinch that must have given you a nice confidence boost before the performance.

Grin pangolin You'll soon be posting your own zipper NSV, after your parkrun successes

OP posts:
Sarahlouboo · 26/06/2017 06:51

Thanks for sleep tips BCF and for telling us your 5:2 story Smile. I wondered if fasting might make you more sensitive to caffeine. I so enjoy my last cup of tea on FDs but I'll get some decaf or fruit tea.

Ok so I have lost 1.75 lbs but no inches so far. Pleased with that, if I can keep that up (and lose some inches too!), I will be nearer to 10 stone than 11 stone by the time my holiday comes around. Week 2 and fasting today. Good luck to all fellow fasters. I have woken up with a rumbling tummy so a bit 😱 but I just need to make it to lunch time.

SingingGoldfinch · 26/06/2017 08:28

Morning!

Amazing inch loss quacking! Good work. Are you exercising lots too? I annoyingly didn't measure when I started on 5:2 so I'm just having to go by feel of clothes etc - hence my excitement when the concert skirt which I haven't worn since March (pre 5:2) slid on so easily!

FD here today - anyone else with me? I actually really look forward to my FDs now - I like the cleansing feeling they bring and they do seem to balance things out in my mind in a funny sort of way. Let's see if I feel the same by midday! Good luck Monday fasters!

OuchBollocks · 26/06/2017 08:49

Good morning :) FD today. Was going to fast yesterday but felt off on Saturday, didn't eat much, woke up yesterday with a properly growling belly so sacked it off until today. Already feeling like that was the right decision. Had a good active day yesterday, took the DC to a country park, lots of walking and shoving the buggy up and down slopes. It's the most I've done since my injury and it felt great.

Need to spring into action in a second and get DD ready for gymnastics, but DS has just nodded off on my lap and it's so cosy...

quckingduck22 · 26/06/2017 09:29

No I really don't do that much. School run walk is about 15-20 mins. Haven't done any cardio for about a month.
When I use our home gym I tend to concentrate on toning. DH bought me a vibration plate a month ago so I use that as he can't as it makes him itch. I do sit ups, bums and legs on my gym mat and 5 mins of boxing.

TheMShip · 26/06/2017 09:49

Morning all, some great victories over the weekend! Busy for us, and I had a work dinner on Sunday. Managed to keep within TDEE and found wheat & dairy free menu options, very pleased about that. Weighed in at 14st 11.6 this morning, and had a nice mushroom & 2 egg omelette for breakfast. Cycled to the pool, swam 2km, then across the road to work. Feeling really good. And that was my FIRST IBS-FREE WEEKEND IN MONTHS!!!!!!!!!! (sorry. I have to shout. I am SO happy. Grin)

GrannyGrown · 26/06/2017 11:04

Monday FD for me too, good to know I'm in good company.

Welcome HunkyDory - personally I find high protein low carb foods best for FDs - my go to foods are eggs and/or (as a non-vegi) prawns. Have you thought about Quorn? Lots of vegetables, never fruit on a FD for me. If you haven't discovered MFP yet, then I'd also recommend logging your food into this for at least the first month so you can see where the calories are going. I still log in all my FD calories so I can keep strict portion control.

Ouch - I hope the scales are suitably harsh on your OH after his shortbread snacking on a FD.

Qucking - congratulations on those fabulous statistics!

Pango - you're acing those park run PBs!

Sarah and all those having trouble sleeping - I hate to jinx myself but ...... a while ago I mentioned I was very cold, particularly at night. Upshot was that I bought some lightweight cotton long PJ bottoms to wear under my nightie - and have slept so much better ever since. Even in the recent heatwave I still wore them. I'm reasoning that being covered, with or without duvet depending on the temperature during the night, my outer body temperature is staying much more constant - fewer highs - and lows IYSWIM. Also means less skin exposed for the mossies to munch on too!

Singing - those NSVs are so good aren't they - unlike the scales, the zips don't lie.

MShip - what a great start to the week - hoping your first IBS-free weekend is the first of many (and week-days too!).

Have a good Monday everyone.

HunkyDory69 · 26/06/2017 11:57

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BigChocFrenzy · 26/06/2017 12:34

That's such good news about your IBS, Mship Smile Have a shout for joy NSV
As I posted, many 5:2ers have been reporting their IBS symptoms disappear completely, longterm

Well done on your SV, Sarah
Tea doesn't contain enough caffeine to keep most people awake, but it is certainly worth trying an alternative in the evenings for a couple of weeks
I enjoy Rooibos tea (naturally sweet) or herbal tea with a pinch of stevia powder - e.g. ginger & lemon, aniseed & fenchel.

Good luck to the Monday fasters Smile Keep drinking water and have a teasp Marmite

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 26/06/2017 12:41

Sarah - on the night time drink front I can thoroughly recommend Pukka night time tea. It is really relaxing and makes me feel sleepy just sniffing it! Worth a try? They sell it in most supermarkets.

FD going ok here. Just water so far and will have my m&s 130cal salad in a mo. Tummy is grumbling but I weirdly quite like that feeling now! Hope everyone else is doing ok.

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