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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
TheMShip · 22/06/2017 10:55

BigChoc - I never heard of the "whoosh" before, but that exactly describes what happened to me a few weeks ago! I went down 3lb overnight (felt like dancing on the scales Grin).

I haven't had breakfast this morning, for a change - my DD who is a toddler suddenly decided she liked the look of my boiled egg and snaffled the whole lot. She's always rejected eggs previously! So I've only had black tea so far. It's not going too badly, might keep it up with fasting through till lunchtime on FDs and I'll naturally be down to 720kcal without that egg. Maybe that's the way to get to 500, just slowly increase the fasting time until I'm only eating dinner?

I haven't had any IBS symptoms since Sunday, fx the complete dairy and wheat exclusion is working. I haven't had longer than a week symptom free for many months.

MerricatsHouse · 22/06/2017 10:59

Thanks for the science BigChoc . I will keep drinking water and await the 'whoosh'! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2017 13:14

Mship Fasting can help IBS too
Several 5:2ers have reported fewer symptoms or even that it has all stopped,
e.g. our lovely talkinpeace is one of the very first 5:2ers, starting right after Mosely's original Horizon program and she has been maintaining for years.
i can't remember if it was she or her DH who had IBS, but they have not had any symptoms in that time.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2017 13:17

As well as IBS, researchers and doctors have found fasting can help conditions caused either by inflammation, or by issues with insulin metabolism
So, that includes conditions like asthma, PCOS, some skin complaints, pre-T2

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 22/06/2017 13:21

I have had undiagnosed IBS symptoms on and off for years and symptoms have significantly reduced since starting 5:2!

TheMShip · 22/06/2017 13:27

That's very interesting, BCF! I have mild eczema and recurring broken capillaries on my cheeks, and I noticed today that both conditions seem improved. I'm reading the Mosely book now, my neighbour lent it to me. I work in biomedical research and have been aware of the science around fasting and longevity in general, but much of it is new to me.

I'd really love to be able to re-introduce dairy and wheat in the future, if fasting can control the IBS on its own. In my case, I suspect that time will help - I developed IBS during a period of hormonal shifts (post-pregnancy, long term BF), when I also had 3 courses of antibiotics in a very short time frame (mastitis), plus a bout of norovirus (thanks, DS!). I think my gut bacteria population has been disrupted and that if I can stay symptom free-ish for several months, those populations will have a chance to re-balance.

LosingItThisYear · 22/06/2017 14:03

MShip - have just caught up on thread now, am not fasting today. I think I need a day of positive results! So aiming for just under TDEE and on track so far. Hope your FD is gong well.

BigChoc - thanks for the info. I actually do a lot of that already. Generally have nothing until mid-afternoon, then it's a protein snack, then I have a lowish carb dinner. If I have fruit, it's after dinner. Water, black tea or coffee, nothing else. I usually aim for about 600cals as I find 500 is a bit too hard!

Non-FD I eat quite LC anyway, not really strictly, but I don't generally eat bowls of cereal/pasta or sandwiches etc - I just feel better that way!

My problem is when I get a bit stressed out - I totally sabotage! Anyway, determined to have a good day today and might try a FD tomorrow.

calzone · 22/06/2017 18:22

FD for me.

Finishing on 700 calories.

OuchBollocks · 22/06/2017 18:28

FD for me. Kitchen closed but my word I would like a mini Magnum. Shattered and DD fell.asleep in the car at 4pm on way to an appointment the hospital made in error, so it was a waste of time and she'll be up until fuck-knows o'clock.

anoldcharterorsomething · 22/06/2017 18:55

FD here... Kitchen closed at 515cals.
ouch that's rubbish re:appointment but remember you can have that magnum tomorrow Smile

Good luck any other Thursday fasters, nearly there.

MazDazzle · 22/06/2017 19:11

Wow qucking!

That is incredible. I look forward to reading your full success story in the inspirational thread soon! Getting down to 9st when at one point in your like you were 14st. I'm gobsmacked. Imagine how you'll feel when the scales say 8st 13lb? Grin

Go you!

MazDazzle · 22/06/2017 19:12

life

CroakingCrocus · 22/06/2017 19:14

FD here and have survived despite being on a training course today which involved a communal lunch. Ate an undressed salad and fruit while everyone tucked into lovely food.

Meh.

Strange meal for dinner of meatballs, cottage cheese and beetroot. But ended day on 520ish calories which is not bad going.

Totally bloated though which is not helping my mood.

Tomorrow will involve more interesting food thankfully.

OuchBollocks · 22/06/2017 19:36

Well done crocus, I'm not sure I could have held out in the face of communal lunch.

Sarahlouboo · 22/06/2017 19:40

This is such a fast moving thread! Well done all fasters, you made it! Going to struggle to stay within my TDEE today as is DH's birthday but did resist getting a bottle of wine. Doing this has made me realise how much I have been eating and 'treating' myself Blush

MazDazzle · 22/06/2017 19:43

What's your target weight Ouch? You're a similar height and weight to me. Just think, even with jumpy scales, soon you'll never see the scales start with the number 14 again!

I went from 14st 9lb, to 12 stone (size 12) in 2013-14, maintained for a year, then fell pregnant with DC3 in 2015. A month after DC3 was born I was 15st 1lb and started fasting again. Just over a year later and I'm 13st 2 lb (size 14).

Had a successful FD today and a successful week, so would it would be nice if the scales shifted tomorrow!

OuchBollocks · 22/06/2017 20:35

MazDazzle I was about 12 stone 10 before I got pregnant with DS, and felt ok-ish then. 12st7 is my initial target (though I have a mini target of 13st7 which I'd love to hit before my birthday in a month) then see how I feel at that point. In an ideal world I'd be 11st 7, which I don't think I've been since uni. I'm also easily the least toned I've been in my adult life, thanks to pregnancy but mainly the ankle injury.

OuchBollocks · 22/06/2017 20:37

Meant to say, you've done brilliantly in the last year max. what's your target?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2017 21:01

Well done, fasters.
If you've had supper, then have a glass of water and clean your teeth, to remove temptations like Magnum Wink
(oh, I remember very tempting Tom Sellek as Magnum. You're probably all too young for that)

Mship and anyone else interested in the peer-reviewed scientific research into fasting, check out the section "the scientific evidence for fasting" at the end of the OP

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 22/06/2017 21:08

BCF DH and I went through a phase of watching Magnum PI reruns. What a man Grin I also fell a bit in love with Hawaii. Some day...

SingingGoldfinch · 22/06/2017 21:11

Well done Thursday fasters - great work all round by the sounds of it!

Successful FD here - finishing on about 400 cals. I have a very grumbly tummy and don't think I've eaten enough protein today but I'm feeling ok and can hang it out till tomorrow now.

I feel your pain on the bloating Crocus. It's very disheartening. I've felt slightly better on that front today so hoping it's easing gradually.

The scales I've been using in boots are still broken so I bit the bullet and bought some today. Planning to brave my first weigh-in on them tomorrow morning!

MazDazzle · 22/06/2017 21:29

I'd say it's about the same as yours Ouch! 12-12.7 would be great. Just a few months ago it seemed impossible, but something seems to have clicked lately and it seems achievable. And after reading about qucking's amazing achievement I'm feeling inspired: the dream weight of 11.7 might actually be possible!

I'd be happy if I could stay under 13. 12 would be fantastic, 11.7 impossible! Until

MazDazzle · 22/06/2017 21:29

Ignore the last 2 lines! I am hopeless on my phone Confused

GrannyGrown · 22/06/2017 23:29

After Monday's monumental tummy-rumble of a FD, happy to report an uneventful day today which, according to MFP, came in at 502. Kitchen is closed - washing up can wait until the morning!

toffee1000 · 23/06/2017 01:25

Today was a fast day. But owing to the fact I was ill yesterday (better now) and didn't eat as much, I did give myself a bit extra today (bit of full fat yoghurt with berries, flaxseed and chia seed). Otherwise meals were as usual. Probably added an extra 100 cal or so, so it remains to be seen how it'll affect my weigh in tomorrow.