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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Mmmango · 21/06/2017 10:09

Congratulations to all on SVs and NSVs!

Thanks BCF for the thoughts on maintenance; I'm inclined to keep to 5:2 and increase calories on NFDs - perhaps increasing slowly rather than eating back the whole calorie deficit this week. (Also want to make sure the additional calories aren't all from crisps).

Good luck to Wednesday fasters :)

MerricatsHouse · 21/06/2017 10:48

Second FD here, feeling hungrier today despite the heat. It's meant to get a lot cooler here overnight (thank goodness) so am wondering whether my body will react quickly enough for my weigh in tomorrow. I would really like a SV this week! I did do my measurements yesterday so at least I can track that as well.

I'm getting a bit concerned about my lack of exercise though, everyone here seems to do so much of it! Really I wanted to get the 5:2 WOL working for me before I decided how to approach it, but I feel VERY lazy now. Problem is I really hate exercise, so need to find a hidden way to get it done. I have a FitBit and used to make sure I did my 10K steps a day, but that has gone by the wayside, and working at a desk all day is terrible for keeping my steps up. Clearly I need motivation!

Good luck to all Wednesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 11:47

That brilliant progress with swimming, Mship A very motivating exercise NSV
Many 5:2ers report they keep improving on exercise pb s. This is due to a positive spiral of less weight to carry and increased cardio fitness.

Well done on your continuing SVs, Maz You are steadily rolling back the clock Wink

betty Several 5:2ers report that on NFDs they have lower tolerance / less enjoyment of alcoholic or sugary / carby junk "treats".
In general, you will be more sensitive the day after a fast. In fact, on that day you may upset your stomach or head by eating too much, or too sugary, or having more than one glass of wine

Merricat If you don't exercise and don't enjoy it, then I recommend condensing it into as little time as possible:
Mosely's Fat Blasts, which just take a few minutes, 3-5 days a week. No shower or anything needed, just comfy clothes and training shoes.
This boosts fitness a surprising amount and helps metabolic issues
see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

OP posts:
Sarahlouboo · 21/06/2017 15:29

Hi everyone, just reporting on my second fast day. Managed this morning with no problems and had soup and some carrot sticks for lunch. Starting to get hungry again now and a bit fluffy headed but determined to stick to it. Unfortunately not very busy today so that isn't helping. Planning on having mushroom omelette and a massive salad for tea.

Great thread for inspiration and support! Thinking about how I can incorporate some HIIT into my week. I used to do Jillian Michaels and T25 religiously but stopped about two years ago and struggling to get back to it. I have had a look at the exercise thread too for ideas. Thank you!

Nearly made it to tea time fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/06/2017 15:59

You are doing well on your 2nd FD, sarah Remember the Marmite for your head Smile
Short bursts of HIIT are a good idea. Maybe start with Fast Blasts, since a few minutes aren't so intimidating, then progress to Shred when you feel ready

OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 21/06/2017 20:53

Well done to everyone. I've not posted for a few days but been reading all your posts.

I ended up doing a impromptu FD due to being dragged round every shop looking for a fan in stock.

We had a BBQ yesterday and I ate too much, within TDEE but it doesn't take a lot to fill me up now. I noticed my DD who is only 9 has a tendency to eat lots one day but won't eat much the next. She asked if we could have a light tea tonight so worked well.

Nearly fainted earlier but sure that was down to heat rather than food as I've been gulping the water down all day.

Planned night off tomorrow but I've been so good all month. Cut carbs, no sugar and no crap or alcohol at all. Straight back on it Friday tho as I'm less than 3lbs away from the 8 stone bracket. Only once in my life has this happened for all of one day but so close.

pangolinfan · 21/06/2017 21:08

Wow, qucking what an amazing milestone you have in your sights! Well done!

toffee1000 · 21/06/2017 21:25

Did a fast day yesterday- scrambled egg, then stir fry with bits of lamb. Today though I was ill so have been taking things easy, mainly things like toast and plain pasta with a bit of cheese.

MazDazzle · 21/06/2017 21:58

Impressive swimming TheMShip!

Thank you Goldfinch! It's taken me 15 months to lose the weight I gained in 9 months of pregnancy. Before I fell pregnant I was a seasoned faster and determined to be mindful throughout my pregnancy. That didn't happen: I ate my weight in cereal and toast (2 things I'd never normally eat). Daily!

Sorry to hear you're feeling under the weather Toffee. Hope you're feeling better soon!

Had my 30 min HIIT class today and eating has been good. I'm still not drinking nearly enough water though. That's my target tomorrow!

LosingItThisYear · 22/06/2017 06:44

Hello, everyone seems to be doing well! I've struggled this week. Tried to fast on Tuesday, but had a tough day and succumbed to emotional eating. Tried again yesterday, but was really hungry at teatime so did eat more, but didn't go wild (unlike the day before) so I'm pleased with myself for that. I've a terrible habit of failing slightly and thinking 'oh well, let's just have that tub of ice cream...'!!

I can't decide whether to try to fast properly today, or just wait til next week now (I can't do it at the weekend).

SingingGoldfinch · 22/06/2017 08:07

We'll done everyone! Yet more amazing nsvs and svs!

Quaking - 8st!!!! What an amazing milestone in your sights!

Sarah - I'm the same when it comes to exercise. It sounds silly but I find it so hard to fit into my week. I also religiously did 30 day shred a few years ago and have managed to get back into it over past month (not past few days though as way too hot) and it's been ok. I think it's a really good DVD for building up fitness and toning gradually and 20 mins a day is usually achievable. I'm going to look at MM's 3-5 min ones for the days that I struggle to find time for it - another good tip BCF!

FD here but feeling really headachy and hungry so am not hugely positive at the moment.

TheMShip · 22/06/2017 08:37

Losing - FD for me today, why not give it a go together? I only do 800kcal FDs as I'm still significantly overweight and 500 would be too difficult. Maybe a slightly higher goal could work for you too initially? I find 800 very easy to stick to. I have a medium egg for breakfast (77kcal), a sub 200kcal veg soup for lunch, maybe some miso soup (30kcal) if I need a salty hit, but otherwise just black tea and water. Then I still have about 475 left for dinner, which is generally a lean protein and lots of veg. I do get hungry, but I'm learning to enjoy the feeling after years of comfort eating and not recognizing my body's signals properly.

quckingduck22 · 22/06/2017 09:10

Oh no not 8 stone. 8 stone bracket I'm 9st 2 today. Target of 8 stone 7.

April last year I weighed in at 12 stone and a few years ago at 14 stone and was a size 22. Never dreamed it would be possible to loose so much.

FD was a good one yesterday but woke with a rasping thirst again, what's that all about?

MerricatsHouse · 22/06/2017 09:23

Well done everyone on getting through this week! I've found keeping motivated tough with the heat, but now it has broken and is actually raining outside. Sounds terrible but thank goodness, some fresh air. Yesterday was hard as for some reason I was really hungry all day - I held on and had a successful FD but my brain was non stop thinking about food. This morning now I can have it, I'm not so bothered. Shows how much of this battle is psychological I guess.

Weighed this morning and am 1lb down which is good, but have lost 4.5% body fat since last week. It is the lowest body fat percentage I've had since getting the scales over a year ago, despite not being my lowest weight. I don't really know the science behind that big drop vs the small lb loss but I'm taking it as a win.

As others have said, I struggle to fit the idea of exercise in between working FT and a young child. However, if I really tried I know I could. We have a treadmill at work and I started C25K on it in January for a while, so that's just sitting there. Plus I used to force myself to do 10k steps a day even if it meant doing laps around the house! So it can be done - I'm just going to use everyone's progress as inspiration and get moving a bit more!

TheMShip · 22/06/2017 09:23

qcking that is an astonishing total loss! I get the dry throat in the mornings too, think we just need to drink extra on FDs?

rocket74 · 22/06/2017 09:25

FD today - as usual I haven't really planned what I'm having yet - except boiled egg and cucumber when hunger hits me!
Had a good day yesterday but then ended up having fish and chips for dinner - but - I had just done a 40minute sea swim - no idea of distance but I was exhausted at the end of it - nearly crawled up the beach!!

Good luck today FDers!!

SingingGoldfinch · 22/06/2017 09:31

Even so quacking - just getting into the 8stone bracket is such an achievement!!! You've come so far - amazing work! Have you lost it all on 5:2?

How tall are you if you don't mind me asking? I'm not expecting to ever be in the 8stone bracket - I'm 5"9 and started off on 5:2 on 11stone 3 and was 10 stone 12 when in I last weighed in but that was 3 weeks ago. My goal is 10 stone.

Good luck all fasting today. I think it's going to be a struggle for me but will persevere!

MerricatsHouse · 22/06/2017 09:33

qucking that's an amazing loss you've had! I'm at the 14st mark and feel like I can only dream of being 3st lighter. Really great to know that it can be done and kept off. Congrats!

OuchBollocks · 22/06/2017 09:59

singing I'm 5'8" and would love to be 11st 3, I weighed in at 13st 12 today :( (which us still a good loss, not sure how much exactly as my scales jump around but it's by far the lowest they've shown since DS was born).

Some amazing results, I'm so impressed StarStarStar everyone :)

FD here but with period pains again I'm not too fussed about eating just yet.

anoldcharterorsomething · 22/06/2017 10:24

Wow, some amazing achievements on here...

FD today but have blinding headache so its going to be a long day. I had to sacrifice some cals and have a skinny sugar free vanilla latte this morning just to get me to function! Have subway turkey salad for lunch and then will see how dinner goes but i may be closer to 600 than 500 today.

Glad the sun and heat has gone also, it was stifling :( Good luck fellow Thurs fasters Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2017 10:26

Drink plenty of water everyone, especially on FDs

Congrats on your SV and bodyfat NSV, Merricat
5:2ers often find the scales take time to catch up with the tape measure

From articles by some fitness trainers who started IF (Intermittent Fasting) several years ago, it seems that IF often improves body composition, i.e. lower % BF with higher % muscle, much more quickly than other WOEs
However, for some people, the empty fat cells fill with water and the body hangs on to this for sometimes even a few weeks, until it releases it - this is sometimes called the "whoosh" because people suddenly drop a few lb almost overnight.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2017 10:33

Congrats on your SV too, ouch
The loss accumulates over the weeks and soon you'll find you are achieving your own stone milestones Smile

I hope you feel better soon, toffee Many people - not fasting - are feeling unwell in this heat.

You're nearly into the 8 stone somethings, duck
Enjoy your night off and don't get discouraged if you have a blip - we need occasional feasts and blips are temporary, especially with fluid retention in the heat.

OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 22/06/2017 10:35

Finch I'm a smidge under 5ft4

I lost 1stone last year no carbing then straight into 5:2 and lost 2 stone. Put 2 back on after Xmas and a bout of depression and this time round since March have lost 1st 8.

Despite being slightly heavier than last year even at my target weight I'm definitely smaller and leaner I think it's just come off of different areas this time round.

GrannyGrown · 22/06/2017 10:37

So many SV's at the moment - well done everyone!

FD for me too. Rocket - I don't really have my FD food planned either. I have plenty of options though, so just need to plug the calories into MFP to see what works!

Thank goodness the heat is supposed to break here - hopefully I can get the bedroom cooled down and aired before the rain sweeps in. I am so tired.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2017 10:42

Loser As pp have said, I recommend you ease your way into 5:2, so what you can and also concentrate on good habits.
This plan may help:

  • aim for 800 FDs, which should work initially, especially if you have a lot to lose
    It helps stay full if you boost protein and have masses of veg, without starchy carbs, or only a v small portion
    Try cutting out fruit on FDs, but the main thing on FDs is to cut out any junk or alcohol, or fruit juice.

  • On FDs, avoid nibbling, because it makes you hungrier
    Most folk just have black coffee / tea for breakfast and then divide their calls between lunch and supper, or often just supper, so that they have a substantial meal

  • On FDs, if you feel tempted to eat off plan, the have a glass of water instead and clean your teeth - this fresh taste often helps psychologically to discourage eating

  • On NFDs, NO snacking between meals.
    If you want a sweet "treat" or even when you have fruit, then do so as part of a meal, e.g. as pud
    or have crisps / chips with a sandwich
    Eat 3-4 meals with protein, lots of veg, sensible portions of starchy carbs - no more than about 100g cooked weight carbs per meal

  • Every day, drink plenty of water. It really is the best drink
    Avoid fruit juice because the sugar spikes insulin and hunger
    Keep fizzy drinks to no more than one can per day maximum
    Stay within nhs guidelines for alcohol

OP posts:
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