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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2017 09:54

That's a good shorts NSV, ouch excellent timing, so you can wear them in this lovely sun

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 17/06/2017 11:41

Back from holiday yesterday evening - why is travelling and spending most of the day sitting down so tiring?

This morning scales report 0.6kg weight gain but tape measure stayed put at 76cm waist measurement which is a relief.

Have a lot of internet catching-up to do, so whatever everyone's doing, hope you have a good day.

pangolinfan · 17/06/2017 13:43

Fantastic post holiday result Granny - you must have been a model of restraint faced with those all inclusive meals - hats off to you. I'd be thrilled with that.
My BMI is now right on the cusp of being officially a healthy weight - 11 stone 6 (from 12 12 in mid March), so I'm happy too. Planning to try for a further stone loss, but I don't really mind if it takes another three months as long as trend is downwards.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2017 16:18

Welcome back and great holiday result, granny

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2017 16:19

Well done, pangolin you are almost at a really motivating BMI milestone

OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 17/06/2017 19:38

Well done Pango & granny!

Anyone else struggling today? My heads been bad AGAIN despite already drinking 2L of water and 4 coffees (unsweetened as I dropped my second sweetener a few days ago and really don't notice the difference)

I was contemplating doing a no food fast as not hungry and couldn't be bothered to cook but had a chunk of cheese a slice of ham and a few cherry tomatoes and my headache disappeared.

SingingGoldfinch · 17/06/2017 19:39

Amazing nsv and sv reports over past few days!! Good work ladies!

Definitely NFD here - catch up with a dear friend in the sun = piña colada, pink fizz and chips. Ooooops!!

I'll be right back on it next week!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2017 08:15

That's good you grabbed some cheese, duck always a quick standby when you cba
A protein shake or ready shake is ok too.

I strongly recommend everyone Avoid zero-cal FDs, except as a on-off:

  • You may feel weak & headaches the next day
  • Regular zero-cal FDs may risk muscle loss - Varady's human trials on ADF found that 25% TDEE (500 cals works for most women) is the best compromise between weight loss and muscle retention.
OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 18/06/2017 10:13

I'm so happy today after 4 FDs of no movment I've lost 2lb over night. Hopefully this now means my body's caught up and will start loosing again. This had always happened at the same point on each stone bracket. I can't count it as my weigh in was yesterday.

My plan for this week is 100% no crap all week, still lowish carbs as I've been doing for the last 4 weeks (DH is doing the same of his own choice) then planned night out for my bday Thursday and my FDs will be moved to Friday and Sunday. 9lbs remaining and I know it's going to go slow but I'm up for the challenge.

Am I right in thinking that 2 FDs after my night out in theory should work better than 1 before and one after? I found last time when I did one the day before a night out that weight went straight back on plus some so at the end of the week weight was actually higher?

My logic says if I have a good week, night out then 2 FDs that should repair the damage?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/06/2017 20:37

Well done on your SV, duck

Just fit in the 2 FDs when it best suits your life
Nailing the FDs and averaging within TDEE over the 5 NFDs is what counts, not whether they are b2b

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 18/06/2017 22:51

Haven't been on the thread for a while as I haven't been feeling great. Came down with an awful cough that had me barking like a seal. I am never ill. Thankfully it's almost cleared up completely. Haven't exercised at all in the last week, so I'm looking forward to my PT session tomorrow.

Planning on fasting tomorrow, even though there's a family birthday to celebrate. Cake can wait though!

SingingGoldfinch · 19/06/2017 08:02

Morning! Good luck to all fasting today. I usually fast on a Monday but kids have an inset day and I'm taking them out for the day so I'm going to switch it to tomorrow. I love how you can be flexible with this WOE.

Yesterday was not meant to be a FD but I ended up eating well below TDEE so I'll notch that up as a mini-FD! Hopefully it will have made up for my piña colada on Saturday!

SingingGoldfinch · 19/06/2017 08:04

Sorry to hear you've been ill Maz - sounds nasty but good to see you back!

Fantastic news on your sv quacking!!! That must be very motivating!

GrannyGrown · 19/06/2017 10:56

First FD for me since holiday. Tummy is rumbling already with the memory of all the breakfasts I had at 7.00 a.m.!

Finding the heat here difficult to cope with - I need to go out and shop for my meal tonight and I should be running with the girls this evening, but with the forecast showing full sun and 29 degrees at 7.00 p.m. i'll be giving it a miss.

On the positive side, scales showed 0.3kg loss this morning from my holiday weight gain.

Pangolin - congratulations on a fantastic weight loss - it's a big boost to reach such a significant milestone.

Qucking - great SV victory.

Maz - hope you feel back up to full health soon.

Goldfinch - enjoy your day today.

Anyone joining me on a FD today?

Sarahlouboo · 19/06/2017 11:15

Hi Grannygrown, I am on my first FD today and I am faint with the hunger Grin! Trying to hold out until lunchtime but just had a handful of raspberries to see me through. Hoping that the heat suppresses my appetite and I have been drinking loads of fluids.

Hi everyone else 👋🏻

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2017 12:47

Good luck on your 1st FD, sarah Smile
If you are feeling hungry, I'd advise against eating fruit on its own to counter the pangs - the sugar, without anything like yoghurt to lower the GI, is likely to make you hungry again very soon

Much better to nibble say a boiled egg slice, piece of chicken or raw carrot or celery
Keep drinking water and glug a teasp Marmite (its only 10cals) to replenish salt & minerals, that we tend to lose in this weather, especially on an FD

Sorry to hear you've been ill, Maz but good that you are fit again

OP posts:
Sarahlouboo · 19/06/2017 13:31

Ah good tip BCF, thank you! I must admit the raspberries by themselves didn't make any discernible difference but had a prawn salad at lunch which has set me right. Will put marmite on the shopping list!

MerricatsHouse · 19/06/2017 13:42

Monday FD here - woke up this morning looking 6 months pregnant with bloat due to sleeping in the insufferable heat! Have really downed some water today so that's helping and I am deflating a bit - can now get my wedding ring on and off again thank goodness. I really do not do well in the slightest bit of heat Blush

Still, the heat reduces my appetite so that's a bonus on a FD - prawn salad for me later on then lots more water. Good look to everyone else on FD!

CinderellasBroom · 19/06/2017 13:43

Ha! The scales have moved half a kilo, finally! 60.9kg, finally, after weeks of being stuck well over 61kg.

The waist and hip measurements are static (within half an inch of measuring error), so more to do there. But its much too hot to run today or tomorrow.

It's good to hear how well everyone else is doing.

GrannyGrown · 19/06/2017 14:00

Hi Sarahlou and welcome to the group. I have raspberries ripening temptingly in the garden but will be avoiding them as I find high sugar/carbs just make me feel more hungry on a FD. I generally find it easier to eat all my FD calories together in one evening meal, usually soup. Surprisingly I don't fancy soup today though so I may join the prawn salad party.

Have just opened up delivery containing the new sports bras I ordered and a small pack of haribo have fallen out. Bah humbug!! I have had to open the packet and sprinkle them into the smelly rubbish bin in order to avoid temptation.

Managed to get a cancellation place in a gym class this morning as lots of people had pulled out, presumably due to the heat outside. Aircon was turned up so wasn't too bad.

Cinderella - totally agree, far too hot to run. I have a 10k in under 2 weeks and will definitely not be at the start line if the hot weather continues like this. Congratulations on your SV.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/06/2017 17:59

You're doing well, Monday fasters !

Well done on your SB, cinderella

During heat waves, I have zero cal sports drink tablets daily, to boost electrolytes - magnesium, potassium mainly. I also munch seaweed a couple times per week.

However, I'm another one who can't exercise in hot weather - I've had heat stroke a couple of times in previous years, so I no longer attempt it.

I've cancelled my usual spin today, plus the last few days gym classes - v hot in Germany and gyms here don't believe in air conditioning.
I went for a walk this morning, but even that felt oppressive and a strain.

It's a good time to go swimming, if you can, dogpaddle in my case a nice cross-training break

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 19/06/2017 20:09

Bloody melting. Hello fasters. Far too hot for exercise I agree. FD tomorrow. Also am going to MFP everything on NFDs, and be more strict on them, it is my birthday 5 weeks tomorrow and I would love to have shifted half a stone.

Sarahlouboo · 19/06/2017 21:30

Thanks for the welcome and I am loving about everyone's NSVs and SVs. Well done everyone. Today I was very hot and quite hungry at times but I have made it. Got a headache - is that the lack of iron? Off to bed thinking about tomorrow's breakfast Smile

GrannyGrown · 19/06/2017 22:00

Well, I thought today's FD would be tough, but even a small high protein/low carb protein shake at 5.00 p.m. did nothing to quell the hunger pangs.

Managed to ignore until 8.00 p.m. when the smell of OH cooking his dinner (and the smells from a neighbour's BBQ) could no longer be tolerated and ate the most massive low calorie salad ever. Not sure how I managed to eat such a huge volume of food - fresh sugar snap peas from the garden; beetroot; tomatoes; avocado and frozen prawns with half teaspoon of dressing. Frozen blueberries for afters (much cheaper than fresh and take longer to eat if they're frozen, not to mention very cooling on a hot evening!). Everything weighed and MFP'd and total for day has come in at 490 calories.

Kitchen is closed. Would dearly love an early night, but need to be online at midnight to have any chance of booking a gym class I want to go to.

Well done on getting through your first FD Sarahlou. Enjoy your breakfast tomorrow.

rocket74 · 19/06/2017 22:39

FD done for the day. Started badly as was hungry early and DD5 forced me to eat some strawberries as breakfast!
2 boiled eggs and cherry tomatoes seemed to stave off hunger until a dinner of massive salad with smoked salmon a bit of feta cheese crumbled over it. Wasn't too bad considering the shaky start and also managed a swim.
My weight is still fluctuating though and refusing to go the extra mile and get under the next stone category! I always swell up in hot weather though which doesn't help. Elephant ankles are driving me mad Blush