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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 15:48

Struggling here today - headache has returned with a vengeance and feeling really yuck. I'm not particularly hungry but feel like i need to eat if that makes sense? I've drunk nearly 2l of water so that's not the problem. Planning to hold out till tea time but currently trying to focus at work and it's not proving very easy!

TheMShip · 15/06/2017 15:57

singing have you eaten anything at all today? Do have something now, you could crash and unintentionally overeat in compensation if you keep pushing through. Try drinking black or herbal tea instead of water, or broth/miso soup. You can get 30cal packets of miso soup and it really helps.

SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 16:03

Thanks Ship. I've had a 120kcal salad so far today and that's it other than a cup of tea first thing, and water. That's usually fine but struggling today for some reason. I have nothing here in the office to eat so bit stuck. I do have green tea though so might try that.

quckingduck22 · 15/06/2017 16:47

I'm the same Finch absolutely banging head and I've drank loads.

I've just got some prawns out to defrost and can't believe how low in cals they are. For 126 cals I can have a whole bag. I'm so happy I'm looking forward to tea now.

I usually only use MFP on FDs and would normally have the same meal but I'm experimenting a bit now, and using MFP every day for over a month and the difference is amazing. Found it goes both ways tho like the prawns I assumed half a bag but other things I have to cut down on. A real eye opener and goes to show guesstimating is not good.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2017 18:33

Good luck, Thursday fasters !

Welcome this year Smile and well done on a good 1st FD
Good luck.

Welcome too, Mship Smile and well done on your SV
800 FD is fine when you have a fair bit to lose, because your TDEE will be high and you should lose quite easily for several weeks.
As you say, if weight loss slows a lot later on, you can move into 500 FDs.

That's brilliant you've stopped smoking, duck
The absolute best action you can take for longterm health

goldfinch If you have a salty drink like Bovril at work, that may help the headache. Or add plenty of salt to your meal.
Otherwise, have a teasp Marmite as soon as you get home

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/06/2017 18:35

Stay focused fasters, not long to go
As soon as you have finished supper, have a drink of water and clean your teeth - it really helps reduce temptation to nibble afterwards.

OP posts:
anoldcharterorsomething · 15/06/2017 19:16

B2B done 😀 really not as bad as I thought it would be although I won't be doing it every week! Well done everyone else fasting today...

SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 20:06

Well done on the b2b Charter! That's good work! Hope everyone else fasting is having a successful day too.

Hope your head is better quacking? Weird we're both suffering today - maybe it's the warm weather? Mine is still there but not as bad - the spoonful of marmite helped I think. I've not had my evening meal yet but have just done a HIIT DVD - feeling a bit lightheaded but will be eating my tuna salad very soon and then an early night I think!

quckingduck22 · 15/06/2017 21:35

Well done on your B2B Arnold. I swear it's a mind over matter thing but means your done for the week now!

I had my salad for tea and took some ibruprofin and feel better now. Really hungry tho after and I ate later tonight as I had to multiple drops to DDs club. That's not like me.
I've had extra water and that's helped. I think your right flinch it must be the weather.

SingingGoldfinch · 16/06/2017 08:47

SO annoyed - psyched myself up for my big weigh in this morning only to get to Boots and find the scales out of order! I don't have scales at home, never have, so have been using the ones in Boots since starting. I like the way they measure body fat too. Not sure when I'll be able to weigh now. Grrrrrrr!

TheMShip · 16/06/2017 08:48

Wow, B2B, that's amazing. I haven't attempted that yet!

MerricatsHouse · 16/06/2017 09:35

No weight loss for me this morning even though I felt like I had a good week Sad . I am trying not to be concerned about it though as I know these things fluctuate. Also it's very warm and close here at the moment so I feel a bit bloated with the heat - maybe I'm retaining some extra water?

Oh well, onwards and upwards!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2017 09:53

That's brilliant, oldcharter Few people manage those, but now you know you are one of them !

goldfinch I'm sure Boots will have repaired scales for next week, but do request this if you haven't already - customer power gives a hard nudge.

duck That's good you've had plenty of water and also Marmite - we lose more water, salt & minerals in hot weather

Merricat Don't worry about 1 week: natural water fluctuation can often cause blips - sets or even a small gain - which can easily disguise a real 1lb fat loss.

If you are nailing FDs and maintaining on NFDs, then the trend over the weeks will be downwards
If you have no loss after 2-3 weeks, I recommend one week mfp, to check the NFDs are not averaging above TDEE and eating back the FD deficit.

OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 16/06/2017 09:53

No loss for me here either and it's not moved in over a week. Bit disappointed as I have been below TDEE all week. I did have a kebab Saturday night but it was a small chicken chunks one with salad and I didn't eat the Pita and that was my only meal that day and I did a fast the next day to make up for it.

I will re weigh after my Saturday fast and hope for the scales move.

I hope you meant onwards and downwards merricat Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2017 09:54

sts not "sets" < glares at autocorrect >

OP posts:
MerricatsHouse · 16/06/2017 10:58

Thanks BCF, I'm staying positive and the thread helps as I can see many of us have stalls and fluctuations then go on to success. Will keep an eye on myself this weekend too just in case.

Oh yeah onwards and DOWNwards of course Grin Good luck with your Sat FD duck - hopefully we will both be out of the sts club soon!

Sarahlouboo · 16/06/2017 12:22

Hi everyone, I am going to join in if that's ok? Some fantastic advice and links on here. Thank you Flowers.

Tried 5:2 a couple of years ago but made me extremely tired and grumpy so gave up very quickly. Less of an active/demanding job now so hoping that will help (although not as busy so maybe more time to think about CakeGrin!)

Going to fast Monday and possibly Thursday. I am the kind of person who wakes up hungry but going to try skipping breakfast and focusing on lunch and dinner. I am 10 st 8 and would like to lose a stone.

OuchBollocks · 16/06/2017 15:29

My scales have barely moved, well they've moved up and down, but a few weeks ago last summers shorts barely did up, today they fastened comfortably so something is going well.

quckingduck22 · 16/06/2017 17:46

Well done Ouch! Have you tried taking your measurements as I find even when the scales show no loss you can still loose inches!

Hey Sarah, good luck for Monday.

I've had a productive day today. DH found a box of old clothes marked clothes that don't fit. Sorted through it and it was mainly clothes that I'd bought years ago when I lost A lot of weight that I sadly couldn't fit into. Most of the clothes didn't fit as are now too big. I managed to find a few nice bits that I'd hope one day would fit into and now do.

anoldcharterorsomething · 16/06/2017 18:57

So.... no weight loss for me either as scales were playing funny buggers, so I've either lost 3lbs or put on 2lbs??? Go figure huh! Changed battery and still same jumps, same for my DH (who has started this with me) so we need to buy a new set of scales. Like others though my clothes are fitting better so that's good Grin got a weekend away so will aim to stay within tdee... hope everyone has a fantastic weekend Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2017 19:31

Welcome, sarah Smile
If you find 500 cals tough, you could ease in with 800 cals the first couple of weeks

ouch sounds like you are losing fat around the midsection at least
Have your tried a week on mfp, to check you aren't eating back the FD deficit on your NFDs ?

Some folk who've been overweight for years have got used to eating more than their body can burn.
On 5:2, you can use the NFDs - the maintenance days - as training days for longterm maintenance

OP posts:
TheMShip · 17/06/2017 09:00

Well done Ouch on the shorts!

After 3 days of low grade IBS, I've had to ditch the wheat substitute products which are clearly triggering, so now no wheat and no subs for the 1-3 month elimination. Shame, I liked the cornmeal muffins which appear to be the main culprit.

Bought new scales, they show exactly the same weight as the old when I step between them so that's good. New ones also do the body fat % and water %, helpful to see if I'm retaining fluid. They auto update MFP which is kind of cool and means I can't ignore any readings!

Ate well over TDEE yesterday as feeling so miserable. Will do better today.

calzone · 17/06/2017 09:13

10stone 11lbs this morning!!!!!! Wooooooooo!!!!! 🎈🎉🎈🎉🎈

quckingduck22 · 17/06/2017 09:16

No loss again from me this week. I was dissapointed but just done my measurements and 1 inch off my bum and 2 off my tummy and I've not done any toning this week. So actually quite pleased with that.

FD today who's with me

BigChocFrenzy · 17/06/2017 09:52

Well done on your SV, calzone you sound thrilled Smile

Well done too on your inches NSV, duck That's lost bodyfat and improved body composition
iirc you are within recommended BMI range now, so scales will be much slower

OP posts:
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