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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2017 08:36

No snacking is the most important habit change for weight loss AND to avoid regain

OP posts:
anoldcharterorsomething · 14/06/2017 10:09

Morning all, not been on for a few days (so busy!) But well done on all the fab SVs and NSVs 😀

FD here today and again I'm contemplating a b2b as there is no other day this week that makes it easy to do a FD. Will attempt it and see how I get on, I guess I'll never know how hard it is or whether I can manage one if I don't at least try!

Good luck all other weds fasters, just off to make a brew ignoring the rumble in my belly for now

SingingGoldfinch · 14/06/2017 10:30

Hi all - hope the fasting is going ok for everyone on a FD today. I usually do a Wednesday FD but am meeting with my new boss over lunch today and don't want to look like a crazy/fussy dieter and not be able order anything normal from the menu so am going to move my FD tomorrow instead!!

MerricatsHouse · 14/06/2017 11:27

Hi all, NFD for me today - would usually be a FD but moved it due to Monday birthday. (Didn't have cake though so that's a good thing, it tends to wreck my digestion anyway). I'm pretty good with not snacking after a while, it gets to be a habit, plus I find not having the stuff in the house helps. But I don't have a sweet tooth so find it easy to avoid sweet treats. I do have a problem with eating whilst cooking though, if I have to put cheese in something it's lethal, it'll be bit for meal, bit for me!

This week seems to be going better, my water thirst has returned so drinking plenty is no longer an issue as I now seem to hanker after it and it's going down easy. No breakfast for me this morning as am listening to hunger cues instead of obeying mealtimes, just had some mid-morning fruit instead. It definitely makes the 16:8 / 14 : 10 aspect easier. One more FD tomorrow then weigh in - though I really do need to get my measurements done too to monitor that.

Good luck to all the midweek fasters!

quckingduck22 · 14/06/2017 11:57

Just been to Lidl for a change and got some lovely new food. I bought some piri piri mackerel and some medertrainian veggies and lots of salad stuff. Reformed character I think as it would usually be sweets and chocolate in there.

I will work my way up to avocados soon!

Can I ask a question as I've never had mackerel before? It says ready to eat and no cooking instructions. Would you not eat it hot in the oven? It's confused me a bit as there are no cooking instructions.

MerricatsHouse · 14/06/2017 13:47

duck It's a weird thing about cooked mackerel not having heating instructions, they don't have it on Tesco ones either. My DH (I prefer it cold) just heats it in the microwave, takes about 30 seconds and is fine. No idea how long it would take to oven heat though.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2017 14:14

Good luck on your 1st b2b, oldcharter
On b2b FDs, you have 650 cals !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/06/2017 14:19

That's right, goldfinch 5:2 is very flexible, to allow for business / social occasions - it fits into your life, to make this WOL sustainable.

I love cheese too, merricat Like all large rodents, i could live on it !
Sounds like you are developing a good system

However you prefer it, duck I have smoked mackerel cold, with salad & a lemon or vinegar dressing, since I find the fish oily enough not to need more.

OP posts:
anoldcharterorsomething · 14/06/2017 16:12

Thanks bigchoc so far so good, had a turkey subway salad with little bit of honey mustard dressing for about 150cals and a skinny vanilla (sugar free syrup ) latte... got small chicken breast with carrots and cauliflower for dinner and maybe some natural yogurt or a rice cake. I'm looking to repeat menu tomorrow 😀

Cheese is my fave thing also, the smelliest and gooiest the better.

duck I also have mine cold and it is delicious, but dh puts his on the oven for 20mins.... Enjoy!

Good luck everyone else.

quckingduck22 · 14/06/2017 19:05

Thanks everyone for cooking tips. I tried a little bit cold and can see how that would be yummy with a salad.

Had it hot with med vegetables and it was absolutely lovely. Not sure if you are supposed to eat the skin but I did. First time I've had corguette and not sure on that. The mackerel Seems high in cals but had a no carb day today so works out well and very filling. So that's going on my list to buy from now on. DH had a taste and said he would eat it but wasn't brave enough to have a whole one.

Salad already prepared for my FD tea tomorrow. I was buying pre prepared ones last week and didn't like them. Something in them I really don't like, have a feeling it's rocket.

I'm going to have another look through the MM recipe book and see what I can try next week. It's a blood sugar diet book but it's the same principle isn't it?

LosingItThisYear · 14/06/2017 20:03

Can I join please? I have done 5:2 on and off in the past. Really need to make an effort now to shift weight before the summer really starts, and this is a difficult week with a couple of social engagements out. Had a FD today, it's been great and I'm just under 500, but this is danger time for me, once the kids have gone to bed. I need to stay strong!

anoldcharterorsomething · 14/06/2017 21:40

Stay strong losing it not long to go... brush your teeth and have an early night if you can.

I'm off to bed at 604cals, assuming as doing b2b I can have those cals tomorrow which means 2nd fd at 700cals? Not feeling bad at the moment, here's hoping tomorrow goes as well 😀

SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 08:01

FD here today - anyone else with me? Think it's going to be a challenge today as I woke up with a splitting headache (up with ds in night thanks to nightmares). I'm at work all day so hoping I can keep busy. I'm planning to get by on fizzy water and just have a small salad for lunch then tuna salad for tea.

Good luck anyone else fasting today!

quckingduck22 · 15/06/2017 09:04

I'm with you finch on the fast day.

I've got loads to do today, back and forth 5 times to the school and back. And I better do lots of chores in return for the obscenely expensive birthday gift my DH let slip he bought me for next week.

I don't think I'm going to bother cooking the fish again as my kitchen absolutely stinks this morning.

SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 09:27

Oooooh! What's your obscenely expensive birthday gift quacking?!?! I'm intrigued!

quckingduck22 · 15/06/2017 09:31

He's bought me my first Mulberry bag. I've been lusting after one for 15 years since I was a teenager.
We don't spend much on our selves and shop in Asda for clothes but I gave up smoking a year ago and have saved ££££ in that time.

SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 09:36

Wow! I've always hankered after a Mulberry bag too! Lucky you! Sounds like you deserve it with your quitting smoking though! Good work! I bet you can't wait to see it/hold it/stroke it now!!!

LosingItThisYear · 15/06/2017 09:39

FD here - I'm trying back to back. I can't fit another one in til middle of next week, so if I don't manage a proper FD today at least it won't be a terrible day!

rocket74 · 15/06/2017 09:53

I'm FD today too. Haven't meal planned yet - but will try and stick to HB egg during the day then something protein based for dinner tonight.
My scales are still up and down - sure they're faulty Wink but will try and drink more water today as I really don't drink enough. I really want to get under and into the next stone category.

quckingduck22 · 15/06/2017 09:54

I'm worried as I don't own expensive things. But it's nice seeing how much I've saved in a year. Each week I put the money into a savings account and I can't believe how much it is and how far it's going to go. Bag, complete bedroom set and money left over to do a few bits and pieces in the kitchen. Crazy.

I actually gave up the fags the day I started 5:2 so it has changed my life. I came to the conclusion of why am I turning my life around with food but still smoking like a chimney.

SingingGoldfinch · 15/06/2017 10:06

Good luck with the b2b losing! I've struggled a bit on the few occasions I've tried to do it - did manage it ok but just felt a bit naff. I think it's bearable on and off but couldn't do it every week.

Sounds like you're on a real health kick quacking - good for you!

Rocket - I would also love to get down to the next stone mark. I was quite a way off when I last weighed myself though. I've not stepped on the scales for over 2 weeks now as had a week 'off' due to half term and wanted to get back on it for a reasonable time before weighing again. Planning to brave that tomorrow - any thoughts on the best time of day to do it?

TheMShip · 15/06/2017 11:10

I'd like to join, it's FD for me today and I could use a little support. I have a bit of a cold and feeling sorry for myself makes me want to comfort eat!

A little about me. I'm 38, 5'7", currently 15st2. I was 17st a few months after having my 2nd and last baby last spring. I managed to get to just under 16st with breastfeeding and a lot of walking with baby in the sling, but stalled out there for about 6 months. Started 5:2 10 May, 5 weeks ago, and have lost 10lb in that time. Because I'm starting from such a high weight, my reading suggested starting with 800 calories on fast days, and that's working really well for me. I'll cut it down gradually if I hit a plateau. My ultimate goal is 11st7, the top end of the so-called healthy BMI range for my height.

This has all coincided with an IBS-D diagnosis which my GP is helping me manage via diet. I've always had issues with dairy and finally cut it completely at the start of 5:2. Last weekend it became clear from my food diary that wheat was also a candidate trigger food, so I have cut it as well. I'm not going totally gluten free unless I have to, as it appeared to be dose-dependent (i.e. one slice of toast with breakfast was fine, that plus a sandwich at lunch was not!). So far so good, I've had 5 IBS free days in a row!

I've always cycled to work most days (~10 minute commute, this is not a hardship!) and I've also recently taken up swimming again. I used to swim competitively as a teen and have had long periods where I swam regularly as an adult, so now that I have my form and breath control back, I'm plowing back and forth at a pretty decent rate for 1500m 3-4 times/week. Takes me about 30 minutes. I've noticed my swimming and cycling improve significantly this month as the weight has begun to come off.

anoldcharterorsomething · 15/06/2017 11:11

B2B here too losing and going okay so far, I'm pretty much sticking to what I had to eat yesterday but with a few left over calories from yesterday (i'm assuming this is acceptable!)

I don't think I could do it every week, but its not as bad as I thought it would be famous last words / pride before a fall

well done on quitting the cigs qucking Smile

I'm going to weigh every two weeks as I can get very disheartened very quickly if the scales are too up and down, so 2nd weigh in tomorrow - eek!!!

anoldcharterorsomething · 15/06/2017 11:27

singing from what i've read on here you are meant to weigh after your 2nd FD, first thing after you've been the loo etc but before you have eaten - good luck!!!

TheMShip · 15/06/2017 12:11

singing I weigh most days, but I always do it first thing, after toilet and before eating.

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