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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2017 23:10

A good FD, Goldfinch and sounds a sensible plan for tomorrow.
I agree you'll be more popular offering around choc buttons than carrot sticks Wink

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 07/06/2017 23:13

I hope the canapés were up to standard, Moomin
I also like tomatoes on toast, but grilled with cheese
Are you joining the Thursday fasters ?

OP posts:
toffee1000 · 08/06/2017 03:32

Hello newbie to thread here

Background: I put on weight when I started university. Didn't have a proper plan for a while, did 5:2 during holidays (I think between 2nd/3rd year), ate pretty much what I wanted on non fast days, still lost.
Then I went abroad. For the first three months the kitchens in the student accommodation were being redone so had to buy snacky type food. Then I couldn't ever get in to the kitchen (couldn't unlock the doors, sounds daft but true) so kept eating rubbish. At the end of July last year I was 12st 3/4. I then did 5:2/low(er) carb and lost a stone in six weeks. Then went back to uni (languages degree) and went off-plan... I didn't have much willpower.
So, after going back and forth to uni (where I always went a little off-plan) I came home for good at 11st 8 a week and a bit ago, did 4:3 last week and lost 3lb last week. Am doing 4:3 again this week. I aim to be in the healthy BMI range which for me would be 10st 6 but want to be ideally 10st/size 10.

My biggest weaknesses carb wise are bread and pasta. It's also my birthday in 3 1/2 weeks where I intend to go off plan because screw it it's my birthday Grin
For fast days I tend to eat scrambled egg and ham (2 eggs) and then soup with some kind of meat/chicken and veg.

SingingGoldfinch · 08/06/2017 05:28

Welcome toffee - it sounds like you've made a great start - and I think knowing where your weaknesses lie is definitely helpful.

Good luck all Thursday fasters!

MoominFlaps · 08/06/2017 06:19

FD today!

Anyone else have young DC? I have a 15 mo and work from home 3 days a week. I've found it's much better to fast when he's not with me as I simply haven't got the energy to keep up with him otherwise/not share his snacks!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2017 08:28

Welcome, toffee Smile and well done on your SV
Definitely no rules on your birthday !

On NFDs, I recommend you boost beans, less, lentils which contain carbs but are on Mosely's low carb Mediterranean regime, because they help control blood sugar.

For the longterm, once at goal, you need a maintenance plan to avoid regain.
As you get a little older, then yoyoing - on any diet - tends to leave you at a higher weight each time.
Repeatedly gaining & regaining a stone or more isn't great for your body longterm.

You probably don't plan low carb as a longterm WOE, so I recommend you use NFDs to train yourself to eat appropriate portion sizes for bread and pasta, also to stay within your TDEE.

What may help is to switch entirely to wholegrain bread and pasta, which have more fiber and lower GI - hence they don't spike insulin as much.

Also, replace them by other starchy carbs:
potato (boiled or baked, not mash or chips), steelcut oats (not instant), buckwheat, bulgur, brown/red/ wild rice, quinoa, barley

and of course increase the proportion of veg on your plate, ideally to half

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2017 08:29

Good luck, Thursday fasters ! Smile

OP posts:
OuchBollocks · 08/06/2017 11:32

moomin I have DD, who is 3 in a few weeks, and DS, who has just turned 3 months. I'm on maternity leave at the moment. I need to start doing my FDs on nursery days otherwise its too tempting to go for a coffee and biscuit in peace Grin

OuchBollocks · 08/06/2017 11:36

My photo memories showed a photo from this day last year, just before I'd got pregnant with DS. I'd quit sugar at the start of the year, I was in my topshop denim shorts with room to spare and I looked pretty darn good. Sob sob. (Even if I do lose lots of weight I can't see me in shorts, my bad ankle has awful discolouration, swelling and scarring)

anoldcharterorsomething · 08/06/2017 12:21

thanks BCF I love aubergine so will look for that on the menu [yum]

My DS is 6 now but I struggle to eat sensibly when he's around as he just eats ALL THE TIME Envy

Just had miso soup with chicken, belly is rumbling already but I have an M&S ready meal to look forward to later...

rocket74 · 08/06/2017 12:26

Need a boost!Angry(not the chocolate bar)
I've had two good FDs this week - Monday and yesterday - but the scales still haven't shifted. I only managed one last week due to half term and kids parties - but feeling a bit down. Thought I might have slipped under the next stone marker by now.
I'm not giving up... but feeling a bit despondent and I've got some returning to work stress that is making me feel low.

Good luck Thursday FD'ers x

MazDazzle · 08/06/2017 13:38

Tried to fast yesterday and the day before, but I just couldn't face it, so it's been 8 NFD days in a row. Did a kettlebells class on Tues though, and a HIIT class yesterday. Today's FD is so far, so good. Haven't had anything to eat yet. Think it will be either chicken or fish with veg for dinner.

MoominFlaps · 08/06/2017 14:25

rocket what are your NFDs like?

Radish, tomato and egg salad for lunch today, 150 cals.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2017 17:56

Keep going, fasters !

Rocket Have your checked your NFDs are around TDEE ?
Try one week only mfp - many people who were stalled have had a real shock from mfp wrt treat and portion size.

If that's not the case, be patient, a 1lb loss can easily be disguised by natural fluctuation in water weight

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/06/2017 18:00

ouch We all pick up scars & wrinkles along the way.
There's no Tardis
However, let's try to be as fit, healthy - and proud - as we can for the age we are.
Be the best Ouch you can

OP posts:
calzone · 08/06/2017 18:38

Fasted today.

It went really well.

Ending on 450 calories.

CinderellasBroom · 08/06/2017 22:49

BigChoc As ever, thanks for the wise advice. I do a lot of that already, but it's always good to be reminded, and there's a few things that I don't do - I've not really done low carb. I don't find I get any problems from carbs, though I do buy whole grain bread, brown rice etc. I've got a good few weeks before the kids are off school again, so hopefully I'll be below 60kg by then.

Well done to calzone and all the Thursday fasters. I've ended on about 470 calories I think (a few coffees with almond milk, a ready meal, three strawberries and a cup of bouillon). So I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself. I even resisted the various yummy things that DH offered me this evening.

SingingGoldfinch · 09/06/2017 00:24

Well done all Thursday fasters!

I think I might be able to class my planned NFD as a mini-FD. I've been on polling duty and it was so crazy busy all day that I didn't get much time to eat! I didn't count calories (definitely no time for that!) but I reckon it was probably around about 800kcal - and that's from a 4.30am wake up until now. Weird thing is - I haven't felt hungry!?!?

quckingduck22 · 09/06/2017 08:16

I successfully managed my first B2B FD yesterday and am thrilled with the results. Since March 23rd 1stone and a half gone.

I set myself a mini target ages ago. Before my stupid binge/large gain. Never thought I would do it but that times up today and I'm 0.4lbs away.

Good luck to all the Friday fasters.

anoldcharterorsomething · 09/06/2017 08:50

well qucking

FD went okay yesterday although I was closer to 600 than 500 (599 cals to be exact!)

NFD today and going out for a curry and some drinks tonight Gin, got about 650 cals saved on top of my TDEE so should be okay. Next FD on sunday, i'm a bit concerned about a weekend FD but there is no other day!

Happy friday everyone Grin

Clearskies99 · 09/06/2017 09:02

Tentatively back on track - after a pretty good week of NFDs successful FD yesterday and 3lb (of bloat I'm sure) have gone Smile. Now just got to be very mindful not to eat back the calories on NFDs, which has been recent pattern.

Plan: get back to 2 FDs per week, ZERO snacking, steer clear of sugar and refined carbs, lots of veg and beans, water and more HIIT type exercise.

Still ridiculously busy and not caught up with everyone's individual news, sorry so will just say a general keep at it everyone! Never mind so much about ourexact size/shape/weight, it's the feeling and being super healthy and fit that really counts. Fasting is so good for us

Have a good day everyone and keep drinking lots of water Smile

kitkat321 · 09/06/2017 09:19

Hi all - only managed 1proper FD today and so far one mini FD ( I'd done well all day then when I got home from the gym DH had cooked me fajitas and I caved!)

What I'm living as how much the FDs make me appreciate food on NFDs- food that I normally consume with no thought feels like a treat and I'm therefore less inclined to eat rubbish.

Weighed myself today after yesterday's NFD and I've lost 6lbs in just a couple of weeks :)

Off on an all inclusive holiday next week though so need to try not put it back on again!!

MsRinky · 09/06/2017 12:01

Well I fasted yesterday, which went fine, but then the exit poll came out and I ended up staying up all night. By 1am I needed wine, and thought I'd better eat something with it. I know that was technically today, but it did mess up my FD. Maybe I'll get another one in this weekend to make up for it.

rocket74 · 09/06/2017 12:48

Trying to stick to Friday weigh days - as today was 3lb less than yesterday!!
My TDEE NFD. should be around 1900 - but think I probably have been going over that recently - so will try to keep better control on those days.
I've started measuring too - so that might help me if I see my waist shrinking as it's a very worrying size at the moment!
Definitely feeling a bit happier about it today!

MazDazzle · 09/06/2017 14:10

Successful FD yesterday. Kettlebells class this morning, then fishcakes and salad for lunch.

I'm annoyed that I've only managed 1 FD this week. I think I'll log everything over the weekend and throw in a mini-FD of 1000 cals.