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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
MazDazzle · 09/06/2017 14:13

A stone and a half in less than 3 months is amazing quckingduck!

How are you feeling? Does fasting feel like something you could stick with long term?

toffee1000 · 09/06/2017 14:37

Not done today's fast (4:3 this week before going to normal 5:2 next) but put on a pair of size 12s yesterday when I'd been a 14 so yay Smile

quckingduck22 · 09/06/2017 15:44

Maz I definitely think I can continue fasting long term. I originally started fasting almost a year ago and that became a way of life for 6 months. Went off the rails after Xmas with depression but was using it to maintain my weight and it was great,

For me it fits in well with our lifestyle as DH works late Thursday and Saturday so eats a prepared meal at work. My DD has tea with my parents those 2 nights. And our shopping bill has reduced.

I have completely cut the crap out the last 3 weeks no treats in sight but it's my bday in 2 weeks and we have booked a all you can eat buffet so my focus has been have it then instead.

quckingduck22 · 09/06/2017 15:46

Congratulations Toffee for dropping a dress size.

Don't get too comfortable in them as you will be in the next size down soon!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/06/2017 18:29

Well done on your return to fasting, clear and your SV

That's a definite miniFD, Goldfinch Well done and I hope you enjoyed a lovely long siesta.

Well done on your b2b and your SV, duck great progress
Have you thought what maintenance plan would suit ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/06/2017 18:32

Well done on your clothes NSV, toffee
You can start to revisit areas of your wardrobe you've not seen in a while Wink

Sounds a good plan, Maz and you are really building up the exercise well

OP posts:
CroakingCrocus · 09/06/2017 19:15

Weighed myself this morning and I was down 2 pounds from last week. Grin

Yesterday was a fast day but I broke at about 2am and had a piece of toast with peanut butter whilst watching election results. Not bad going considering. Wound up staying up till 3:30 am but didn't over compensate with food today. Coffee yes, but not food as I would have done in the past.

So it's Indian takeaway tonight.

toffee1000 · 09/06/2017 20:20

Exercise is definitely something I could do more of. I started doing Couch to 5k last summer with my mother (who's doing BSD) but we stopped after about four sessions as she had problems with a knee and I didn't fancy doing it alone. I prefer doing things like swimming anyway. Plus there's also walking round the block, little simple things are better than nothing!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/06/2017 21:51

Well done on your SV, crocus

toffee Go for whatever kind of exercise you enjoy and can conveniently do regularly
That could be swimming, running / jogging / hiking, a (free) YouTube Shred, yoga, Zumba ...
Lots of idea & info also in our 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

OP posts:
calzone · 09/06/2017 21:57

Bigchoc, I'm struggling on NFD......

Please help.

I'm awesome at FD but I seem to want to eat all the food all day.

What is a good NFD breakfast which will satisfy me until lunch?

MoominFlaps · 09/06/2017 22:05

Eggs, calzone!

calzone · 09/06/2017 22:53

Just eggs?

I'm really greedy.

MoominFlaps · 09/06/2017 22:54

Well no not just eggs, but something eggy will keep you full for ages. You want protein. I scramble my eggs with chilli, tomato and Parmesan and have with a side of avocado.

MazDazzle · 09/06/2017 23:22

qucking it sounds like you have it sussed! I've been fasting one and off for 3 and a half years and even when I've fallen off the wagon I've managed to maintain with the odd FD.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 08:52

calzone To keep full, go low-medium GI and avoid foods that spike blood sugar the most.
So, avoid

  • breakfast cereals
  • flavoured yoghurts - even those with fruit normally add masses of sugar
  • fruit juice
  • most dried fruit
  • heavily processed white bread

some ideas to enjoy:

  • porridge, not instant - have steelcut oats. Add cinnamon, almond flakes, berries / apple
  • flaxmeal with above is another v healthy alternative to cereal
  • full fat natural Greek yoghurt with seeds / nuts & fruit
  • spicy veg juice
  • wholegrain / wholemeal toast - first ingredient listed should be wholegrain / wholemeal flour with pnut butter thinly spread & banana / salmon & cream cheese / poached eggs / veg omelette / bacon & tomato
  • pancakes with cheese & ham / berries
  • homemade muffins using almond flour or flaxmeal

btw, I'd avoid eating a huge or very spicy breakfast the day after an FD, until you are sure your stomach won't object.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 08:57

I make my low GI crepes with 2 eggs, a tbsp flaxmeal and a dash of milk. i.e. no flour

OP posts:
MerricatsHouse · 10/06/2017 10:39

I was 2lb down when weighing yesterday and 1% body fat down too. (My scale measures body fat but have never been sure of the accuracy). I am finding it a bit harder to drink loads of water, I have definitely been doing 2 litres but for my weight it should be around 3l. Must get back in the habit especially on NFD as it really does help with my digestion / water retention. I also need to start thinking about regular exercise now I've got the fasting habit established - but that's the bit I don't like!

It's my birthday on Monday so won't be fasting then, but will be on Tuesday. Trying to eat under my TDEE today and tomorrow to allow for some treats.

Good luck to all you weekend fasters 😀

MazDazzle · 10/06/2017 11:58

Thanks for the reminder Merricats! I really need to start drinking more water. I used to drink plenty and developed a real thirst for it, buy once I was pregnant it made me feel sick and I've never gotten back into the habit.

toffee1000 · 10/06/2017 12:22

About 1 and a half pounds or so down this week, not as big as last week but as long as the number is heading downwards that's all I care about.

quckingduck22 · 10/06/2017 15:31

I'm not sure about maintenance BCF. I've been thinking about it but not really sure. Definitely plan a FD per week, possibly 2 depending on weight gain.

For me I think weighing in often and if I gain to deal with it there and then and not next week or the week after.

Ideally I would like to 2 low carb days, a FD and 1 night a week as a treat meal and a dessert of something I fancy. I have a history of binging and I'm hoping if I have a set day to have whatever I'd like it may combat the cravings.

I've spoken to my DH and we have decided to get new dinner plates as ours are FAR to big. Also want to ditch all the shop bought processed foods. We have stopped currently and are eating nice quality meats but that's something we all need to continue with.

I'm a little way off all that just yet but its been playing on my mind a lot.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 17:54

Well done on your SV, toffee That's a good rate of progress because loss is mostly bodyfat now, not water.

Well done on your SV too and your bodyfat NSV, Merricat

A good check on visceral bodyfat is to monitor your waist, at the narrowest point, usually about 2" above your navel.
First aim for waist / height to be below 0.5

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/06/2017 17:56

Maz and everyone else, Drink water !
Especially on FDs because you are taking in less water from food. On NFDs too though.
Your body needs plenty of water to burn / process body fat.

Start each day with a big glass and keep drinking through the day - always have water with you.
If you go out, drink a glass of water, then a small glass wine, then water again etc

Aim for 1.5 liter per day water, plus other drinks

OP posts:
toffee1000 · 10/06/2017 21:24

Can I just ask what SV is? Obv know FD and NFD but can't work out what SV is.

Clearskies99 · 11/06/2017 06:51

SV is 'scale victory' as in weight going down NSV non scale victory, eg fitting into previously too tight trousers, resisting over-eating piles of crap, all that kind of thing! Little milestones to celebrate on our 5:2 journeys to better health Smile

Clearskies99 · 11/06/2017 07:15

Great NSV toffee fitting into size 12s!
Good to ditch the processed food duck and to have your husband on board too

cal NFD's can be tricky for me too - what helps me is drinking loads of water, planning 3 healthy meals in advance, ZERO snacking and not having too much carbs (and definitely not refined carbs) first meal post FD. So like others have said, eggs are good. If I eat alot of carbs that first meal it makes me much more likely to overet as the NFD goes on. Good luck!

Well done merri croaking and any others I've missed.

Another 1/2lb down here post Saturday FD, making 3 1/2 lb down in my first successful week of 2 FDs in a while. The bloat has gone! Feeling more confident i can get back into the 5:2 routines that served me so well last year.

NO SNACKING is my mantra!

Have a good day everyone and keep drinking that water Smile