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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 68: You don't have to be in control to start, but you can start to be in control. You can do this. Go for it !

974 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:27

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
quckingduck22 · 03/06/2017 10:03

Weigh in day today and I'm 3lbs down.

Bmi was 26.6 / now 23.5

Total lost since March 23rd 1st 4.

When I started I stupidly didn't take any pics or measurements but I started recoding measurements 3 weeks ago when I started toning up. Focusing on my tummy legs (inner and outer thigh) and arms.

Waist -2 (27.5) I've measured that under my boobs tho and when I started wore a 34 bra.
Tummy -2.5 inches
Thighs - 3 inches

FD for me today. Good luck to everyone else fasting.

anoldcharterorsomething · 03/06/2017 10:41

Well done qucking on your loss and congrats on keeping 2.5 stone off under stressful circumstances clear

I drank way too much and ended up eating a cheese pasty Blush I'm hoping cup of tea number 3 will get rid of the slight thump I have at the front of my head 🙁 NFD today so going to mfp to make sure I don't go over tdee.

Happy saturday everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 18:31

Great progress duck
Well done on your SV and important inches NSV - that's lost bodyfat

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/06/2017 18:33

Drink more water, oldcharter - you may be dehydrated after overdoing last night

OP posts:
quckingduck22 · 03/06/2017 20:01

I tried something new today. Olive oil, used it for my mushrooms with salt and pepper. And it was bloody lovely.

As a family we're going to try makrel filets this week as I saw it in the BSD book I've finished. I think DH may like the peppered ones.

Bless him he's really struggling to understand the change from low fat / high fat.

EvenFlo2 · 03/06/2017 20:54

Well done everyone who is fasting or even attempting to fast over a weekend! Very impressive.

I'm having a bit of time 'off' this weekend, migraine on thurs and surgical procedure today so haven't felt it sensible to calorie restrict. Will get back on it on Monday though!

OuchBollocks · 04/06/2017 13:06

I know at this stage it's water and bloating going, and losses will slow down, but my waist has gone from 37" to 34.5" in the last few weeks since I've started this Shock

MoominFlaps · 04/06/2017 13:32

Well done on all the losses!! My 1st (not first ever, just first after a break) FD tomorrow. Miso soup for lunch and a giant salad for dinner, I think.

MazDazzle · 04/06/2017 18:29

Wow Ouch! I'm always amazed at how flat my tummy is after a couple of FD.

OuchBollocks · 04/06/2017 19:16

It's very motivating :) FD tomorrow, then we're away for a family mini-break Wednesday to Friday. The hotel does fab breakfasts so will start off on omelette and fruit and try not to snack. Co sleeping so alcohol isn't an issue. Will be doing a fair bit of walking and some swimming, hopefully ankle pain won't be too much of an issue

SingingGoldfinch · 04/06/2017 20:24

Hi everyone! I've been offline and off the fast train for a week now due to half term hols/family time. I've not been calorie counting but have tried not to go too mad. Alcohol has been consumed and I've eaten an ice cream but I haven't gone crazy. I'm back on it tomorrow with a FD and feeling really motivated after my break. I'm not going to weigh myself again until after my second FD next week to give myself a chance to make up for some of this weeks damage - I know I'd find it really demotivating to see how much I've gained.

I've not caught up with all the posts yet, but hope everyone had been doing well. I saw your amazing holiday self control Granny - certainly puts me to shame!!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2017 07:16

That's a motivating waist NSV, ouch and indicates lost bodyfat

OP posts:
anoldcharterorsomething · 05/06/2017 09:03

morning all :)
Had a bit of a tough time on saturday and went over TDEE slightly, I'm hoping it won't have too much of an effect on my good start. NFD today and FD tues and thurs...
Wow, fab inches lost ouch

Good luck to all fasting today :)

CinderellasBroom · 05/06/2017 10:41

Like SingingGoldfinch I'm back after half term, and seem to have managed to maintain:
61.3kg
Waist 31.5"
Hips 38"

I'm off to a HIIT class which I'm doing fasted for the first time. I'm not sure how that's going to go, so I'll see how I feel about continuing to fast or whether I think that'll be too much. I'd like to get in two fast days this week, but if it's only one then I'll just cut back more on eating in between meals and alcohol, and hopefully that'll work.

SingingGoldfinch · 05/06/2017 12:20

Good luck to all those fasting today! I'm doing ok so far. Just water and one green tea so far. I have a 160kcal salad in fridge which I might have in a bit. Planning a mushroom omelette with salad for tea. Feeling motivated!

MoominFlaps · 05/06/2017 12:29

Fast day today. Had 2x teas (with milk, I don't do herbal tea) and a handful of cherry tomatoes. Will have a miso soup later and a big green salad for dinner. Not doing too badly, thus far.

MerricatsHouse · 05/06/2017 13:12

My new start after hols turned out to be a false start - what I thought was jet lag soon turned out to be a nasty cold and the combination of the two knocked me for six! So I've had 2 weeks of not fasting and just taking care of myself and feel completely better now. Also I am still my post holiday weight, so haven't gained.

Back on the horse today and doing well, but I have a question - can I have today as a mini-fast day and then do two more full fast days this week? I have food in the house that has to be cooked today for dinner but would still like to do two full FD. Is that OK or too much fasting?

OuchBollocks · 05/06/2017 13:33

Doing well so far, out doing a bit of shopping and remembered to pack DD some lunch so I wasn't tempted by the M&S café.

anoldcharterorsomething · 05/06/2017 17:55

So forgot I've got a big meeting tomorrow which is catered but I've planned a FD... so options are continue with fd and have to fess up to everyone why I'm eating a subway salad and not the lunch or move it to another day but realistically it would have to be weds and then fd again on Thurs as out again on Friday Confused I read on another thread about how difficult back to back FD'S can be but that you have slightly more calories? Is this right? Am I setting myself up for too hard a task? Any advice gratefully received Smile

anoldcharterorsomething · 05/06/2017 17:56

Wow merricats I'll be interested in your answer also Smile

OuchBollocks · 05/06/2017 20:24

Glad you're all better merricats, and well done for not gaining with all that going on.

anold I wouldn't fancy doing 2 FDs in a row, I would be very grumpy. Could you fast on Saturday? I'll be fasting on Saturday this week, as we're away Weds - Fri and I'm not skipping hotel breakfasts :)

Finished today on 930cals. The company Cook do some fantastic ready meals for one that come under 400 calories. I had thai yellow butternut curry for dinner at 279 calories and it was very satisfying.

SingingGoldfinch · 05/06/2017 20:36

Thanks for the tip about Cook meals Ouch! I walk right past one of their shops on my way home every evening so might pop in!

SingingGoldfinch · 05/06/2017 20:37

Also, meant to say that I did two b2b FDs on my second week. I found it pretty hard going and didn't feel all that well if I'm honest. I wouldn't attempt it again. Mini FDs are probably a safer bet.

CinderellasBroom · 05/06/2017 20:42

Hmm, I wonder if there are any Cook meals locally...

Anyway, kitchen closed on 450 calories plus a few coffees with almond milk, so should be under 500. And I've discovered I can do a HIIT session on a fast day.

Just need to stick with two fast days a week now until the end of term - I used to fast when the kids were young, but they'd notice now and I don't want to set a bad example. It would feel a bit 'do what I say, not what I do' to tell them to eat when they're hungry and stop when they're full, if they knew I wasn't doing the same. So I'm limited to fasting on days they're at school and / or I'm at work.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/06/2017 20:50

Merricat That should be fine. If you find the 2nd FD too tough, you can always choose to turn it into a miniFD.

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