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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
OldBooks · 18/02/2017 07:16

I did very well on 5:2 pre-DC. Now I use food to get through the day when I have had rubbish sleep and feel stressed! I have tried to do it again but never quite managed. I have PCOS and know that a fasting is good for insulin resistance so I do want to introduce it at some point. I hadn't heard of 16:8 though, that might be easier to implement.

Thanks for the warm welcome and encouragement!

MazDazzle · 18/02/2017 07:49

I was the same after my DC, OldBooks. It's very hard to stick to any sort of eating plan when you're suffering from sleep deprivation. I used to reach for sugar and caffeine as soon as I got up!

It will get easier once they sleep better. How old are they? My youngest is nearly one, so (hopefully!) the worst is over. Last night sucked though! I've already had 2 Jaffa cakes this morning Blush.

OldBooks · 18/02/2017 13:09

Maz DD2 is 6.5 months, still doing 2 night feeds and waking for the day between 5 and 6. I am just trying to eat as healthily as I can, low carb, low sugar, good fats etc.

Enjoy your swanky event!

Hatemylifenow · 18/02/2017 13:47

I feel you maz. My 11mo ds was up teething all last night, am shattered. Luckily a NFD today.

mozzarellamummy · 19/02/2017 07:16

I tried to join before but didn't stick to it.. but I like the title too!!! I weight 10,6 stones and would would like to lose 1.
I've been getting up and down with weight since a teenager and I am now almost 45 .. Blush
I will be back to ask for advice ..is there any teacher here? I'm a teacher , I like my job but I find it very stressful and energy demanding and I easily rely on sugar bombs and snacks..cutting sugar will be very hard.. Any advice on that? I think I have developed some kind of addiction psychological and chemical...Sad
Last question.. how long can I expect to get to my target weight?Wink

Hatemylifenow · 19/02/2017 07:19

Well my NFD was going well yesterday up until the point I had a pizza (domino's) and sides.

It's another NFD today but I'm going to try to stick to 1000 cals to make up for yesterday. And tomorrow is a regular FD.

minnymoobear · 19/02/2017 08:22

Morning all
Geeat thread with so much info to take in :)

I want to do this.
An 42, and probably at my heaviest for a long time, was 14.2 a month ago when i weighed myself and have done nothing about it - except eat more so am prob closer to 14.7 now 😩

Its totm but no real reason to bot start this so will do my reseaech and reading today, and start wirh an FD tomorriw! Am only at work 2 days this week so will be careful about what i eat at home.

Biggest challenge is junk food and snacks! Will fund my fitbit and get walking again.
Am a size 16 which is getting tighter by the day and have bought a couple if size 18s recently - not goid.

Want to get into a certain size 16 top bought as a bday pressie but too tight fir me to wear.
Want to fit into it for mothers day - 5 weeks to go so should be doable!

I have been weak
Can motivate others really well but not myself!
So will be asking for help and probably have lots of silly questions - would love your help and advice along this journey ❤️❤️

Thank you 😀

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2017 08:41

Welcome, Minnymoo, mozzarella Smile
There is lots of info in the OP, especially the "how to start section" and the links underneath
If you are interested in the science behind intermittent fasting, there are links to peer-reviewed research & studies at the end of the OP.

Post whenever you have questions though, or need support.

I recommend:

  • Plan your FD in advance today, what meal(s) and when, then stick to the plan tomorrow
  • If you need skim milk / sugar in hot drinks, then measure out in advance your chosen amount for the FD and out in 2 pots
  • Buy Bovril & Marmite if you don't have any
  • Bovril is a hot 10 cal drink that doesn't spike insulin as sweet drinks may.
  • Glug a teasp Marmite (also 10 cal) mid-morning & mid-afternoon to avoid headaches, while your body adapts used to fasting
  • Tomorrow after loo, before eating or drinking - weigh, measure waist & hips
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2017 09:07

Mozzarella On the 2 FDs, you need to cut out sweet treats (& alcohol) completely, or 5:2 won't work very well.
Fasting on junk isn't healthy either
On FDs, just have masses of veg, with plenty of protein & optionally a small portion of starchy carbs

Most people lose a few lb the first fortnight, then longterm average 1lb weekly. This is a safe, gentle rate to lose, but those with a few stone to go may be losing up to 4lb weekly, which is ok at the higher weights.

The key to success on 5:2 is not just the FDs, but also remembering that NFDs are "maintenance" days
i.e. you don't diet then, but don't binge either - that eats back the weekly FD deficit required for fat loss.

So, train yourself to average about TDEE over those 5 days, which is good practice for maintenance later

On NFDs, there aren't rules about what to eat, but you will find it easier to stay within TDEE longterm if you can control the sugar habit and also stay within nhs alcohol guidelines.
That also helps avoid longterm health issues that excess sugar or alcohol can bring, not just weight.

For some, treating sugar like alcohol works - aim to have no more than one portion of sweet junk on any NFD
For others, only cold turkey and cutting out all sugar works - such folk are often insulin resistant, vulnerable to T2, with the characteristic weight around the abdomen, the apple shape.

The feelgood spike of insulin from sugary treats is only temporary, then your blood sugar & mood crash and hunger spikes again.
This sets off a sweet cravings spiral, very unhealthy longterm
Try to develop other techniques to manage stress - I do a quick 20 pressups or deep squats, < but I'm weird ! >
Deep breathing exercises, or music via headphones, can help lower stress
If you like to munch, go for raw carrot or celery (no dips or sauce)

Changing habits normally takes a month to become your new habit
However, getting to a place when you are ready to change can be tough, so be patient with yourself and post for support if cravings bite.

OP posts:
minnymoobear · 19/02/2017 10:14

You are a star BigChocFrenzy!

Thank you! Just watched MMs horizon on iplayer and its crazy how much of a differnce it can make.
My mum had diabetes and dad had cancer, both have passed away at relatively young ages so dont really know what im waiting for.

Am having a kitchen renovation at the moment so only cooking in the microwave - will so a light food shop so can plan properly for NfD on Tuesday.
First fast day tomorrow :)

boldlygoingsomewhere · 19/02/2017 13:40

Hello everyone,

I was on previous 5:2 threads but haven't popped in for a while. I've been on the low carb threads to try and figure out the optimum balance for me in terms of carbs vs fasting. It's been an interesting experiment bad I've found that I do need to eat mostly low carb combined with 5:2 or daily 16:8 to lose weight. I relaxed over Christmas and the beginning of Jan for Xmas and birthdays and, boy, does it show! I put on weight but it all went around my middle and I look 4 months pregnant from the side!

So, I'll take it on the chin as it's good proof for me that eating bread daily (even if it is delicious and fresh from the bakery) is not good for my health. Today is a fast day and I'm saving myself for my evening meal. The next one will probably be Tuesday.

Oldbooks, I also have PCOS and found that doing 5:2 and reducing my carbs has meant that for the last year, my cycles are now in normal range. Most are 29-31 days now. Before 5:2, they were never less than 37 days, often closer to 44. It's been a massive improvement.

mozzarellamummy · 19/02/2017 17:25

Thanks bigchoc .. I am sure the hardest thing is to start .. and then maintenance ...Hmm
Could I drink diet coke on fasting days? I know it's not the healthier choice ..

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2017 18:25

Mozzarella Many fasters have Diet Coke or Coke Zero. See how you go.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2017 18:28

Welcome back, boldly Fasting and low carb are a great combination to tackle PCOS and fat around your middle.
You probably also need the deficit of 2 FDs to lose weight, unless you manage a daily deficit on 16:8

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2017 18:29

Enjoy your new kitchen when it's finished, minny
The temporary chaos and mess of installation will be totally worth it

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 19/02/2017 18:35

Didn't manage 1000 cals today. 1400. So still less than TDEE but does NOT make up for yesterday. Onwards and upwards right!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/02/2017 21:22

Forget it, move on and return to your planned FDs and NFDs for the week, MyLife
It's best not to struggle trying to compensate, but to accept that a major social occasion or a real binge may mean sts or a gain for the week.
If it was a binge, note the trigger, so it's a learning experience.

OP posts:
minnymoobear · 19/02/2017 22:16

Heya guys
Had a message from new manager to say we are going out for lunch tomorrow to talk through stuff - do you reckon i should change my first proper fast day to Tuesday? Or have lunch ad my main 500 cal meal and just water and drinks for rest of the day?
Dont want to be nervous about 2 things 😩

Downloading mfp now

Tdee is 1882 - based on last weigh in so will go and weigh myself tomorrow morning on way to work

hollolew2 · 20/02/2017 06:58

Morning just marking my spot. Lost 1lb last week ☺️. Fast day today & Friday . I've committed myself to 3 days in the gym a week till I go away in May 😐. Good luck to everyone fasting today hope it goes well .

BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2017 07:17

Minny Move your FD and enjoy your lunch out today

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2017 07:18

Well done on your SV, hollow

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2017 07:21

Minny In future, try to weigh yourself at home, first thing in the morning, naked, before eating or drinking anything.
If you want to monitor weight, then consist conditions are helpful
Most folk weigh the morning after FD2 each week.

OP posts:
sonyaya · 20/02/2017 07:26

Hello everyone! Thanks for the useful advice on this thread. Attempting my first fast day today and I'm a bit scared!!

Hatemylifenow · 20/02/2017 07:26

FD today. Aiming not to eat much til dinner so I can have a decent meal.

Notreallyhappy · 20/02/2017 07:30

Morning....sneeking back after a week on the sick. Germs was a chest infection so am now coughing better.
Hoping for a 750 mini today to ease back in, then stick to 1350 tdee 16/8. I need to sort myself out.

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