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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Overtiredbackagain · 14/02/2017 08:42

Hope you're feeling better soon Clear Flowers

OohMrDarcy · 14/02/2017 09:16

Morning all

Finished the birthday celebrations with DD, had a lovely time... so today is a FD!
Weighed this morning and its up a fair bit so hoping that is water retention and it will disappear again pretty quickly

Food today is looking something like
1 egg omelette at lunch with a sprinkle of cheese
tonight, a chicken breast with loads of veg and some spices

can't wait!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2017 11:14

Don't worry MrD That's just undigested cake plus retained water from all the excess carbs
Two FDs and a decent week and that should all be gone by next week, plus maybe a little addiitonal loss

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 14/02/2017 12:58

Afternoon all.
I've missed 3 pages & I've only been missing 3 days. Hope everyone is doing well.
No fd here yet, have germs so not up to it. Am sticking to 16:8 & under 1000c per day, that should balance out. Take care allSmile

OohMrDarcy · 14/02/2017 20:51

Evening all

FD complete here, bit of a struggle at times as been out and about so less time for glugging... had my dinner earlier with the DC so have just topped up my water bottle and made a huge mug of tea and will finish both before bed!

Clearskies99 · 14/02/2017 21:44

Thanks BCF and OTBA
Get well soon Not
Early night MrD!

OohMrDarcy · 14/02/2017 21:59

Rest up clear and hope you're back on form soon!

I'm off to bed shortly

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2017 06:29

Well done on your FD, MrD and all the other Tuesday fasters.
MrD You can start glugging when you get up Smile and keep a couple of bottles with you.

Get well soon, Notreally, clear and everyone else lurgied Flowers
Don't fast if you don't feel well enough - you could aim for healthy maintenance, with plenty of veg, fruit and beans.
Drink lots of water and avoid sweet junk or booze - both lower working of the immune system

OP posts:
SequinsOfEvents · 15/02/2017 08:43

Morning all

Second FD of the week for me today - thanks for the advice re: headache avoidance BigChoc. Will give the soy a go - however hungry I might be, I could not manage a teaspoon of marmite Grin

Right - am off to keep busy for the day! The children have some friends over which is lovely for them but I'll have to struggle on through without coffee and biscuits today.....booooo! The chat should keep me busy though Smile

Good luck FD-ers and happy recovery to all you unwell peeps!

Hatemylifenow · 15/02/2017 08:44

First FD for me today - yesterday was a write off as valentines dinner. Will do second one on Friday I think.

OohMrDarcy · 15/02/2017 09:16

Oh I did BigChoc- Got through 2 of my massive bottles in the morning, just had a 2 hr period after that with none which annoyed me

Healthy NFD today... Chilli for dinner tonight

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2017 10:56

Just enjoy black coffee, Sequins or with a dash of unsweetened almond milk / skimmed milk

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 15/02/2017 17:29

First FD nearly done. I've had

B one hard boiled egg with teaspoon engine chilli sauce

L spinach and broccoli soup - my own recipe, 100 cals

D red cabbage and carrot salad with a mini wrap

2.5 L water and two peppermint teas

Hatemylifenow · 15/02/2017 18:22

I'm SO hungry 😭

TheDowagerCuntess · 15/02/2017 19:31

Two really successful FDs this week, both just under 500 cal. And a further weight increase from last week.

Disappointed.

SequinsOfEvents · 15/02/2017 20:28

Oh Hatemylifenow - it is poo feeling hungry isn't it? Go to bed early?!?! is 8:21pm too early?!?! Grin

My FD today was ok but I think I've gone over 500 cals a little......not as strict as I have been the last 3 FDs but still OK I think and defo better than a bog-standard day that's for sure Wink Also, good news, no headache today! So I didn't have to try the soy sauce after all BigChoc! It feels good to be x2 FDs down so I can relax a little for the end of HT. But I really do need to adopt a "don't go mad" mantra though as we have x2 cinema trips planned (don't ask how! Confused ) so I really must try and avoid being my usual cinema piglet self!!!

Dowager - keep going......if everyone's success stories are anything to go by, it will happen so just keep on going. Good luck!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2017 20:30

Not long to go, MyLife
Hang on, clean your teeth, then chant "I can have it tomorrow"
Visualise how proud you will be to have nailed it.
Don't worry if the first few FDs are 600-700 cals - some folk need to ease in and adapt gradually

Dowager Have you mfped for a week, to check you aren't eating back the FD deficit - and more - on NFDs ?
Eating to appetite for some people means they automatically do this - mind & body try to trick you, to avoid losing weight
Some folk get a shock with mfp and find they need to use it as training wheels, for TDEE (what your body needs to maintain)

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2017 20:38

Sequins It is good to train yourself that going to the cinema doesn't mean snacks.
Have a decent meal before you leave home and then as soon as get back, or have a meal out.
Just take a big cup of fizzy water , or an ordinary tea/ coffe, not a fancy latte.

If you go out for the day, include proper meals in your planning, either at restaurants, or taking a coolbag.
It's fine to have say ice cream as your pud, part of a meal. Or have a sandwich meal with crisps.
Just avoid having crisps and ice cream on their own: they are calorie bombs and they don't relieve hunger for long - they spike it.

Best 5:2 tip: no snacking EVER

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 15/02/2017 20:41

Had a smear of peanut butter as was a raging lunatic. It's taken the edge off. Will brush teeth now!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/02/2017 22:05

Well done, mylife

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 16/02/2017 09:04

Was worried I'd wake up starving this morning and eat everything in sight but no, I've still not had anything bar a cup of tea.

OohMrDarcy · 16/02/2017 09:33

Morning all

Didn't have the best day yesterday - enjoyed the chilli but did end up eating some tortilla chips with it so suspect I went over TDEE a little (but that is guesswork)

Going to have an NFD today - its my friends funeral tomorrow and I don't have the strength of mind to push myself on it today.

Weight is still up on last week (3lb up in fact Sad ) but I'll keep on keeping on and am sure it will come off again soon...

Hatemylifenow · 16/02/2017 09:48

Sorry to hear that darcy Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 16/02/2017 12:43

MrD iirc, you had celebrations & social events with lots of extra carbs, which will have retained water.
If you have a restrained weekend, then this should just be a temporary blip.
See what the scales say next week.

OP posts:
Emison · 16/02/2017 13:05

After maintaining last week, I've lost 1lb this week! 9lb to go to my target weight of losing two stone by mid June Smile

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