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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2017 08:21

clear Some low carbers do better with absolutely no starchy carbs. Others find it helpful to have "garnish" of wholegrain carbs at some or all meals, i.e. one tablespoon total.

Also, some find they are very sensitive to the sugar in fruit and need to cut that out for the first 2 weeks, then just have 80g berries every day or too.

On LC, avoid juicing & smoothies, especially fruit, because that raises the meal GI and many folk soon feel empty again.

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 13/02/2017 08:38

May I join? I've struggled with my weight for years but it never got "too bad" - I was never more than half a stone to a stone overweight. Now 11 months after my baby I still haven't managed to lose the baby weight and am 12st - am only 5ft3 so this is at least 2 st more than I should be.

I low carbed for a while and it did work but I just couldn't stick to it, it was too restrictive. I hope I have better luck with this.

I have worked out my TDEE is 1700.

onwego · 13/02/2017 09:18

Hi all, great to read the ongoing positivity on this thread. It's an empowering way of eating for me. I'm coming back to the thread as I'm determined to lose the last 3 lbs to take me to 8 and a half stone. I've maintained since Christmas. My plan on fast days is to have coffee in the morning, a boiled egg and salad for lunch and some soup in the evening. I've developed a dark chocolate habit, and I'd like to find a way of having days off that again.

Hatemylifenow, I started at 11st 5 and I'm 5"2. I began in July and have lost 2 and a half stone. The first couple of months felt hard for me, but the benefits of losing weight meant that I kept on going. This is a great thread for support.

Hatemylifenow · 13/02/2017 09:23

That's great onwego, very inspiring!

OohMrDarcy · 13/02/2017 10:10

Morning all

Happy Monday!

Had a good weekend here, Saturday I went for a long walk with a friend before my night out, ended up only having 3 glasses of wine so was happy with that!

Sunday had a massive roast (Christmas part 2), but knew it was coming so was my only meal of the day to balance it out hopefully, had loads of veg and kept the pudding small, though did make the most of the roasties / cauliflower cheese too!)

Not weighed yet after the weekend as DD turned 10 this morning (!) so was a bit preoccupied with her... hope I managed to get a balance Smile

Tomorrow will be a FD here, as out for a birthday tea tonight. I know where she wants to go and have worked out the cals I need for that (quite a few ..ahem) so working backwards from that point for the rest of the days allowance!

Waving hi to the new peeps!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2017 11:03

Brilliant achievement, Onwego
It's quite a good idea to do as you did, lose 2-3 stone, then maintain a couple of months, then lose the next bit

  • in your case just the final few lb - but pp with several stone to go can find it gentler to alternate 3 months loss with 1-3 months maintain

Welcome, Hatemylife Smile and I hope 5:2 can help you feel good about at least one aspect of life.
5:2 works with whatever kind of eating suits you - "your usual" food / Mediteranean / WW / low carb / veggy / vegan ....

Enjoy your DD's birthday, MrD
Personally on important occasions, I'd move the FD to the next day - flexibility is a great advantage of 5:2 - but whatever suits you

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2017 11:06

sorry, MrD my post was ambiguous - I was just reminding newbies that we can move any FD to avoid social occasions.
You have an FD right after your celebration, which is ideal.

OP posts:
MalmseyWhine · 13/02/2017 15:58

I've been on a training course in London that finished at 1pm. London was looking gorgeous with blue skies and a hint of warmth from the sun and I have had to summon every ounce of willpower to not sack off my FD and go out for lunch.

It would have nice if I could've got a cup of tea and sat by the river admiring the view but I just didn't trust myself to make good choices. Sad. So I came home on the train and had my dinner straight away.

Fed up now.

Hatemylifenow · 13/02/2017 15:59

Gosh this is hard!

I made broccoli and spinach soup for lunch (skipped breakfast) and had with a hard boiled egg. Dinner egg salad. Have had tea with milk too. Tracking everything on MFP.

I'm knackered!!! And starving Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2017 18:00

Mylife, Malmsey Have big drink of water, then thoroughly clean your teeth - it helps to avoid temptation.
Chant "I can have it tomorrow"
Most folk get used to fasting and get into an FD routine after 2-3 weeks.

Malmsey In future, I recommend moving the FD to another day if you are going somewhere new / exciting, or have a course that may offer nice food, or need to network at a business function.
I regard such events as social occasions, which I want to enjoy fully, hence not on an FD

OP posts:
Hatemylifenow · 13/02/2017 18:01

I'm used to drinking 2.5litres water a day from low carbing - so that's something!

MalmseyWhine · 13/02/2017 18:14

Thanks Big Choc - wise words. .It would be nice to get to a point where I am able to have that cup of tea/drink of water and enjoy the atmosphere without making food the focus of the day. That time will come.

FleshEmoji · 13/02/2017 19:13

FD here - usual 200ish cal salad and then I had a ready meal - Waitrose chicken & cashew nuts. Won't be having that again. Why is everything so sweet these days! Onward and upward - I'll try something different tomorrow. Just want 2-3 of these 300-400 calorie ready meals so I can have them in the freezer for when I don't feel up to detailed calorie counting.

Hatemylifenow · 13/02/2017 19:19

I was too starving so I have turned today into a NFD. 1200 cals though so ok. Was my fault for just starting on a whim and not really planning it.

TheDowagerCuntess · 13/02/2017 19:32

to those struggling.

If it's any help, I'm about 5 weeks in now, and I am find FDs much less of an endurance.

I think my positive thinking (mentioned on previous thread) vs deficit thinking is definitely helping, but as BCF says, it does get easier, the further into the routine of it you get.

FDs are when progress is made. When better health occurs. When weight loss occurs. That feeling of hunger is progress, and a step closer to your goal/s. And it doesn't last.

Flowers
MalmseyWhine · 13/02/2017 19:41

I'm determined to keep today as a FD! If I didn't break it for a delicious riverside lunch in the sunshine overlooking St Pauls I'm not breaking it for a cheese sandwich & a packet of crisps.

Hatemylifenow · 13/02/2017 19:41

That's the sort of motivation I need Malmsey!!

MalmseyWhine · 13/02/2017 19:43

Believe me, tomorrow I am going to have a big plate of scrambled egg and a milky coffee!

MalmseyWhine · 13/02/2017 19:44

Hatemylife, plan meals, keep busy and avoid triggers might be the way we need to go.

SequinsOfEvents · 13/02/2017 20:06

I'm hanging in there - started the second week of 5:2 with a FD today. Feel ok as I've just had a salad with x2 soft boiled eggs, splash of oil/balsamic and a little squeeze of salad cream Grin

Did a weigh this morning but not really sure what I started at tbh! That said, I was less than 10st 9lbs and I have been 10.11 - 10:13 for the last forever! Not even dipping below 10.10 for the last couple of months so seeing a weight less than 10.9 was a real plus! Spurred on for this week!

I have my second FD planned for Wednesday this week I think - it's half term here so will try and keep all the treats to a minimum and not go too mad on the other days!

This FD wasn't too bad......albeit I did have a CRACKING headache but I gather that's fairly normal...!?!?

Onwards and upwards everyone......Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2017 20:35

Well done on your SV and good start on a routine, sequins

To avoid headaches, on FDs gulp a teasp Marmite (10 cals) from the jar, say mid-morning and mid- afternoon. It replaces lost salt & minerals and boost B vits
An alternative is a tbsp of unsweetened soy sauce (also 10 cals. The larger amount is because it is less concentrated)

Once your bidy fully adapts to fasing, you shouldn't get headaches

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 13/02/2017 20:47

Not long to go, Malmsey You can do this
MyLife You had a good sub-TDEE day. Now have an NFD tomorrow, while you plan your FD

FDs

  • Advance planning is key
  • The day before, shop / prep / weigh / calorie count ALL your FD meals . Buy Marmite, Bovril too
  • Weigh out your milk and sugar allowance (if any) for the full day and put in separate pots. . Better still, try Rooibos tea, naturally sweet, doesn't need milk. Or unsweetened black coffee.
  • Ready meals are OK, but check the label for at least 20g protein and no more than 5g sugar - for the serving, not the 100g fragment. . Add extra veg ! . Ready soups: Covent Garden Skinny Range are good . Miso soup is v low cal as a starter. I even regard hot Bovril as my "soup"
OP posts:
Serialprocrastinator2 · 13/02/2017 20:56

Thanks for the welcome, I will check out those tips bigchocfrenzy. First FD has gone well, managed to last until 7.00 without eating, then had a low cal ready meal and some mushrooms and a tin of ww chicken soup! Just drinking another cup of green tea wishing it was red wine and will have a early night. I am determined to do this long term this time.

Clearskies99 · 14/02/2017 07:28

Thanks as always for advice BCF. Still quite unwell at moment (got worse again) so will conside rthose different options once I'm better.

Have a good day everyone

BigChocFrenzy · 14/02/2017 08:05

So sorry to hear you are still unwell, clear
Do take care of yourself Flowers and I hope your GP can help.

OP posts:
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