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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2017 06:39

pressure ? pressups !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2017 06:41

Good luck to all the Thursday fasters Smile
and drink lots of water, especially if you're also enjoying lovely sunny weather (26 C here in Germany Smile )

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 18/05/2017 09:52

BigChoc - Not sure 18 years is enough time for me to tackle B&W's target!

FD for me, looking after toddler, reacquainting myself with Jillian, then afternoon/evening class. Should keep me out of trouble.

EmGee · 18/05/2017 13:19

Good luck fasters. I was supposed to have a FD today but after a rubbish night's sleep and car stress (flat tyre at midnight!!), I did not feel physically up to it. Onwards and upwards tomorrow....

BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2017 19:05

Poor you, Emgee Last night sounds a nightmare. I hope you managed to chill a bit today.

OP posts:
CinderellasBroom · 18/05/2017 20:49

I hope all the Thursday fasters had good days. I had a very busy day at work, so it was quite easy, though my ready meal was very welcome this evening.

I was wondering, does anyone have any recommendations for relatively high protein, 450cal ready meals? They need to be non dairy, too. There used to be a few in M&S, but I can't find them, and ideally I'd like to get them from Tescos as it's on my way home!

Based on BigChoc's advice, I looked up NHS alcohol guidelines, and was pleased to find that my 4-5 pints of bitter a week were well within guidelines. Weirdly, I actually really like some non-alcoholic beers, so I quite often choose one of those instead, if I want the taste of beer.

MazDazzle · 18/05/2017 21:18

Good evening everyone!

FD here. Had a meeting first thing and managed to resist the baked goods and stick to my coffee! Had dinner at 7pm, which was two roast chicken drumsticks, sweet potato wedges & salad. Came in at 515 calories.

Good luck with your Fri FD Emgee! It sounds like you had a rough night.

rocket74 · 18/05/2017 21:42

Hi, good FD day here - but thinking 3 eggs might be a bit OTT!!

Been busy with swimming, having a work catch up and a heart scan today so not much time to think about my food - or lack of.
B - white coffee
L - hard boiled egg and cherry toms
Dinner - butternut squash and chilli soup and 2 boiled eggs with asparagus to dip.

Going to try to stick to Fridays as my weigh in day as I keep checking everyday and don't think it helps. Must find a tape measure too as I feel a bit slimmer but I've not taken any measurements.

Well done everyone who FD today!

GrannyGrown · 18/05/2017 22:37

An okay FD here today. Finished the day on 525 calories.

Me and Jillian got re-acquainted this afternoon - I had forgotten how hard 30DS is. I managed 6 big girl press ups before resorting to girlie ones. Had optimistically got out 3kg weights but quickly realised even 2kg were pushing it a bit. Kept with the 2kg but had to take one or two breaks. Am blaming combination of carrying 12kg toddler this morning, a 7 mile -slog- run yesterday and FD today for lack of energy. That's my story and i'm sticking to it!

Well done resisting the baked goods Maz.

Can't help with the ready meals Cinderellas* - my go to FD meal is soup although I do split my calories now and have a prawn salad in between afternoon and evening class. Perhaps you could get a less protein rich ready meal and add a high protein food to it? 50g of steamed chicken adds 15g of protein for only 82 calories.

Rocket - nothing wrong with 3 eggs - they are not the villain they used to be, high in protein, good fats and nutrients.

EmGee hope you have a better day tomorrow. Flat tyre at midnight must have been very frightening.

SingingGoldfinch · 18/05/2017 23:05

Yay to you getting reacquainted with JM 30 day shred Granny!! It is tough isn't it!? I admire you being able to manage 6 big girl push ups - I can barely do 1!!! I'm still aching today after doing it 2 days running! Didn't manage to fit it in today but will be back on it tomorrow!!

NFD here today and had very low cal lunch but maxed out with a carb heavy dinner and wine out this eve. Feeling naughty but also nicely full - realised I've not felt completely full like this since Sunday! Think it's probably good for me to do on some nfds but equally already thinking about my next FD on Monday. It feels almost cleansing.

Grifone · 19/05/2017 07:22

Morning all. I am going to have to park my second FD of the week. I get low BP and had a drop on Tuesday so am focusing the rest of the week on healthy nutritious food with lots of salt and hopefully will start again next week when the BP normalises.

Granny you have inspired me to dust down my 30DS DVD. I had great success with it last year. I have arthritis in one knee and and a few slipped discs so I switched to the beginner 30ds and find it much easier on my joints and fragile bits while still beibg effective Wink.

Good luck to everyone fasting today.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 07:50

Morning all. Good luck to EmGee and the Friday fasters.

Rocket I agree with Granny that having 3 eggs is fine if you enjoy them.
Eggs are high quality protein, with some fats, plus nutrients for the eyes, all for not that many cals

OP posts:
GrannyGrown · 19/05/2017 08:34

Grifone - inspiration for my return to JM30DS lies fairly and squarely with Goldfinch who re-started it a few days ago. Hope you're BP resolves itself soon.

rocket74 · 19/05/2017 09:14

SV today!! 2lb loss this week - so 9lb total since starting 5:2 - 3 weeks ago?
I am 1st 2lb less than I was in February though so it does feel quite a substantial loss since then.
Feeling positive today!!

GrannyGrown · 19/05/2017 12:19

That's a great SV rocket, well done!

Am weighing in on a Monday morning in an effort to be mindful of what I eat over the weekend. The scales were not impressed last Monday unfortunately, so will have to do better this weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 12:34

Well done on your SV, Rocket Great progress

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 19/05/2017 16:09

Great work rocket!! Amazing progress! That's motivation for us all!

calzone · 19/05/2017 19:20

Fast day here

B...none

Lunch....none

Dinner at 6pm......love life beef lasagne and a whole roasted cauliflower.
Skyr yoghurt and 100g blueberries

Bath and in bed by 7.20pm!!!! I'm knackered.

So chuffed to have stuck to it and only eaten 600 calories.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 19:48

Well done on a good FD with a delic supper Calzone

OP posts:
calzone · 19/05/2017 21:09

I love the fact we have foodie names BigChoc!! 😂😂

calzone · 19/05/2017 21:11

Do you count calories on NFD people??

I'm planning on banana pancakes with blueberries and yoghurt for breakfast.

Smoked salmon sandwich for lunch.

Pulled roasted duck with noodles for dinner.

CinderellasBroom · 19/05/2017 21:32

calzone I don't count calories, but when I'm trying to lose (as opposed to when I'm doing 6:1 for maintenance) I aim to eat three meals and no snacks. So anything I want, but it needs to be part of a meal. I don't always manage it, particularly if supper ends up being really late because of work schedules, but if I do snack it's on something like ham or a hard boiled egg, rather than biscuits. I find that doesn't feel like deprivation, but stops the sort of mindless grazing that otherwise is easy to do.

calzone · 19/05/2017 21:55

Cinders.....I'm trying to be more mindful of what I eat.

I think that because I did sw for so long and lost 3stone......so much crappy food such as mugshots and Mullerlights are pushed at you if you want to eat them.

My mind is blown at how many calories are in things. 😱

I just know this is a better way to eat.

MazDazzle · 19/05/2017 22:04

Well done on your SV Rocket! That's fab.

Goldfinch I'm feeling the same today. Enjoying a bit of indulgence, but looking forward to Monday's FD too.

Well my favourite 30 mins of the week is soon going to be much more. I've been given a month's free pass! Shock It would be a shame not to make the most of it, so I'm pulling in all my babysitting favours over the next 4 weeks. Usually I go to one class per week, but for the next 4 weeks it'll be 3 and a PT session. I'm scared, but also excited! 🥊

BigChocFrenzy · 19/05/2017 22:19

Most folk don't need to count cals on NFDs

However, if you are sts for 2 weeks or more, or losing very slowly over the weeks, then I recommend mfp for one full week, as an NFD reality check.

Some folk who have been overweight a long time have got used to eating much more than TDEE. Hence they are eating back the FD calorie deficit and not losing properly.

OP posts:
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