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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MalmseyWhine · 20/02/2017 08:33

Good morning. Another week, another weigh in and another 2lbs dropped so that's 4lbs in two weeks Smile. Am going to start weighing myself on a Friday after FD2 from now on though.

Feeling positive about today's FD. I have a delicious dinner planned so just need to keep busy and stick to tea/water until then.

I do need to increase my activity levels though so that will be something to focus on this week.

Overtiredbackagain · 20/02/2017 08:37

Morning all! Decided to weigh yesterday to see what damage I had done last week and after TOTM but I'm 1lb down so that's 4.5lb down in two weeks. Very pleased with that!

I would normally fast on a Monday but a Client lunch today so NFD here. Good luck all Monday fasters!

UnlikelyRunner · 20/02/2017 10:07

After trying and failing to start this many times, I'm on board properly now with a plan and today is my first FD. I want to lose 2 stone (12st3lb today) and get back to size 10/12. I'll be following your success stories as motivation!

Hatemylifenow · 20/02/2017 10:59

unlikely I'm about the same weight as you with the same end goal :)

BigChocFrenzy · 20/02/2017 11:18

Congrats on your SVs, OverTired, Malmsey

Welcome, Runner Smile and good luck on your 1st FD

Good luck on your 1st FD too, Sonya
It's not that be scary Wink Do post whenever you need support or advice

Sorry to hear you've been lurgied, Notreally
Concentrate on nourishing food with lots of veg, to build yourself up. Also drink lots of water.
Easing in gently sounds sensible. This is a WOL not a race

OP posts:
InspiredinUS · 20/02/2017 11:54

Haven't checked in in a while. Been keeping up with 2 fast per week. Not exactly 500 but around there. I've been trying to average tdee on nfd. However I've let too many carbs sneak back in. Have to add carb counting back in. Have a vacation planned to Florida in 40 days and need to drop as much as possible! 😖😬

InspiredinUS · 20/02/2017 11:56

Oops hit post too soon. I meant to say I am averaging GOAL weight tdee on nfd.

Fasting day number 1 for this week. Time to kick it in gear!!! Goodluck to all fasters today!

Notreallyhappy · 20/02/2017 12:52

I'm with you inspired need to sort it out. Have 4 day weekend away this weekind, one in 4 weeks & a holiday in June... might not be the skinny Minnie I dream of.

Hatemylifenow · 20/02/2017 13:15

FD diet

No breakfast

Lunch 2x hard boiled eggs with encona chilli sauce

Dinner broccoli and courgette salad, dressed with lemon, salt, chilli and half a tablespoon olive oil

Snack 10g almonds

One tea with milk. A few peppermint teas. Water.

sonyaya · 20/02/2017 13:27

Thanks bigchoc! It's a tough day at work (I'm in london from up north, left 6am and travelling back tonight) and so far just onto my second black coffee. Worried about temptation on the train but I'm so tired I'm hopeful I can get an early night which should help avoid the evening munchies!

Is it normal to be starving?!

Hatemylifenow · 20/02/2017 13:28

sonya are you on a FD? In future I'd plan them for days you don't have a very intensive day. But yes you do get hungry of course :)

minnymoobear · 20/02/2017 20:50

BigChoc
Thanks for the weighing in advice... no idea where my home scales are! With all the refurb work on the house, everything is everywhere - may be a bit toooo much to get naked on a boots scale Grin

sonyaya · 20/02/2017 20:57

hatemylife

Yes my first fast day! In bed trying to make a rice cake last all evening by eating it in tiny pieces Smile

yumyumpoppycat · 20/02/2017 21:34

Well done everyone on fast days and scale victories, Monday is a busy day on here hard to keep up!

My fast went well, much better than expected Hmm
breakfast black espresso (single shot not hard core enough for a double yet) - this didn't kick in for my exercise which was a v short weight dvd ( I skipped bits), but I had loads of energy to whizz round tidying up after, then school run with dds, then home to work but also had ds (11) and his 4 friends most of the day as they are still off school. Busyness helped I think.
Brunch at 11.00 1 egg and some leftover broccoli, but this just made me more hungry so I went a bit grazy had a little chicken, teas with milk and sugar free gum (actually counted the gum on MFP Halo )
Dinner at 6.00 chicken, green beans, spinach, also had 4 frozen cherries and a lick of dc's ice cream from aldi while still a bit frozen and they were yum. Think I came in under 500 Shock Did not expect to be under.

Thanks Big choc for the espresso tip think that really helped,

MazDazzle · 20/02/2017 22:44

but this just made me more hungry

That's why many fasters, myself included, wait until as late in the day as possible before eating. Once I start I can't stop!

Had a successful FD today after 3 NFD. I'm really beginning to notice my body shape changing now.

SequinsOfEvents · 20/02/2017 23:12

Monday is defo the day for fasting :)

Started my third week of 5:2 with a FD today.....my fifth one and they are starting to feel easier. I'm not less hungry or anything but I think you do start to know what works and how to get through it! For me, I agree with you MazDazzle - not eating for as long as you can seems to be best. I saved practically all my calories for dinner which I had with the family around 7pm! I had a cup of tea, a coffee and a couple if nuts and raisins during the day but no other food. Brilliantly, my husband cooked today but, sadly, it was a fattier meal than I would pick (a pork loin......) so I think I've only just managed to stay under 500. Still, it felt like a FD so I'll be positive about it!
Scales showed another lb off so I am getting very close to 10 and a half stone. I think that for next Monday's weigh-in, I will be there so I'll keep on keeping on with that in mind! Then, I've only another stone to go ;)
Good luck this week everyone!!!

sonyaya · 21/02/2017 06:34

I did it I did it I did it! Grin My first FD!

Well done to everyone else too.

mazdazzle

I waited till the evening to eat too as I'd never get through the evening otherwise!

Hatemylifenow · 21/02/2017 06:44

I was definitely over on yesterday's FD, I weakened in the evening (it was DH's fault, he ate chocolate in front of me!!!)

My diet history has shown me that when I fall off the wagon I think "fuck it" and give up so I'm going to try my best to stick with it this time.

Notreallyhappy · 21/02/2017 07:30

Morning.
All seems to be going big guns for all,,,well done.
mylife not fuckit moments allowed anymore, breath through the chocolate moments and give dh a dig for not helping.
Well done sequins your just where I'd like to be.
Fd for me went good under 700. Am toying with the idea of doing BSD for 5 days a week. I followed the principles yesterday and felt OK. Anyone else tried. Will try again today.
Have a good one all.Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 21/02/2017 07:34

Congrats on your SV, Sequins Good luck for Monday, but you'll get there, whatever day it happens.

Well done on your 1st FD, Sonya, Yumyum
Grazing tends to make you hungrier. It is usually more satisfying to have just lunch & supper, or even just save nearly all cals for supper
Most folk adapt to fasting within 2-3 weeks and FDs become easier once you have developed your routine.
Your FD menu sounds fine, mylife

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/02/2017 07:41

MyLife Your DH is beyond cruel ShockGrin
Remember for any goal, whether it's weight, fitness, career or whatever:

You were born to be awesome, not perfect

Everyone of us successfully maintaining here had several blips along the way, quite a few detours
We just learned from it, moved on and nailed the next day.

The key to longterm success is persistence, not perfection

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/02/2017 07:47

There are some teachers on here.

If a pupil got some spellings wrong, would you say:
"You are useless, give up, you'll never be any good at reading & writing"

Of course you'd never be so cruel
So, be as kind & patient to yourself as you would to a pupil, who is not perfect, but trying their best.

OP posts:
Bilbomum · 21/02/2017 11:30

Hello! Thought I should just delurk to say thank you for all the great advice on here, it's really helped me. I weighed in after Xmas at 10stone 3lb which was the heaviest I've ever been (5ft 4" with a small frame). I'd been really unhappy for the last couple of years, all the weight was around my waist, none of my clothes fitted properly and I was eating loads of sweet stuff but couldn't stop myself.

I finally thought enough is enough, I can change this - so I've just done six weeks of fasting, started for a couple of weeks 5 2 and then upped to 4 3 when I got used to it and I've lost a stone Grin. I feel massively better in myself, lost over 5" from my waist and actually feel bouncy for the first time in ages! My target was 9 stone but think I'm going to carry on for another month and see how I get on, might drop back to 5 2 and start practicing how to hit 1400 calories a day for the future so I don't bounce back up. Good luck to you all!

MamaInternational · 21/02/2017 11:46

Hello, I've followed 5:2 on and off since 2012 but recently have completely fallen off the wagon and really struggling with the fast days.

I'm hoping reading this thread will help me get my head round to the 5:2 space again. :)

sonyaya · 21/02/2017 11:49

bilbomum

That's so inspiring - a stone in 6 weeks!! Wow! I'm only an inch taller than you and my starting weight is only 3lb lighter than you so you've really motivated me.

mama

You can totally do it - don't let a bad day turn into a bad week. On fast days just keep telling yourself how happy you'll be tomorrow that you stuck at it. Good luck!

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