5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

[BigChocFrenzy]

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

• WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
• HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
• CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
• SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
• EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.

HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

• FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.

Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.

• BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.

You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.

• NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.

Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.

• Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.

It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.

• Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss

Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.

• Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.

When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.

• CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.

Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !

Thanks for the advice BigChoc. You are so wonderfully supportive! I have a big chicken salad for my lunch and hoping to hang out till then. I'll follow your advice and take a healthy 100 cal snack in case the lightheadedness strikes again today. Here goes...

FD here for me after a weekend of debauchery.

I am in my danger hour, so if I can get past 10.30 I am hoping to be ok with hot drinks until tea tonight of prawn stirfry fry at about 7. Planning lots of water too.

Have a busy day with a meeting in London later so that should help.

Good luck all fasters!

Hello Monday. Hello FD.

No SV here this past week - in fact I seem to have put back on the 0.2kg I lost the previous week which is slightly demoralising.

On a NSV, I have lost another 1cm from my waist which is now 49.3% of my height (if I stand up tall!). Looking straight on in the mirror I have a noticeable dip in the sides now, although the view when I stand sideways on still shows a rounded paunch.

Rainy day here today. Can't complain as the garden is still very dry. Wish to would warm up just a bit though.

Good luck with your FD Goldfinch. Hope the extra calories keep the dizzy spells at bay.

Hello all. FD here today (my third). I have also managed a gym class this morning and I didn't keel over with hunger so that's good.

I weighed myself after FD2 and was slightly gobsmacked to see the scales at 54.7kg (from 56.6kg). I have definitely reduced some of the flab around my middle which is encouraging. I tried on 'the trousers' that are the benchmark and while they were slightly looser than pre-5:2, they were still far too tight. I do wonder how I could ever have fitted in to them!!

I'm trying hard with reducing the snacks and am managing on FDs. Still a bit tricky on NFDs, but have definitely reduced the amount of snacking so it's a positive start. Have tried to keep it to once a day.

I have also read Fast Exercise by MM. Need to start on that which is hard as I am, by nature, a sloth!

Good morning all. Checking in for my first FD of the week. I had a coffee with a splash of milk earlier and sm just bsck grom a 5km walk with the dogs. Dinner will be spicy prawns a with spiralised zucchini. I will probably have a late lunch if either egg or chicken salad. Good luck everyone.

Good luck, fasters

Your waist NSV is encouraging, Granny
However, if you've basically sts for 2 weeks, I recommend looking at your NFDs:
Have you tried mfp for a week, to check you are within TDEE ?

Also, most folk seriously overestimate exercise cals.
So, don't eat back what gadgets tell you - allow for any exercise via TDEE calculation. Mosely recommends calculating TDE at one exercise level lower than you think, to counter overoptimism.

Well done on your SV and progress, Emgee

Hallo! I was on these threads abut four years ago, losing the last of the baby weight and maintained pretty well, but it's crept back on a bit recently (I'm at 62kg, and prefer to be 59-60kg), so I thought I'd do a few months of 5:2 to get myself back to where I'm comfortable. I suspect the first few will be hard, so I'm posting to make myself accountable.

I'm doing one 5-7k run a week (it's meant to be two, but things keep getting in the way) and one HIIT class (which is fantastic). I'm thinking of fasting on Mondays and Thursdays - today is the first one. I have a ready meal that's about 450 calories for supper, and the other calories I will use for almond milk in coffee, and maybe a few cups of bouillon.

Oops, forgot measurements:
Weight 61.4kg (but 62.something last night, so I'm counting it as 62kg)
Waist 32"
Hips 38"
(Had to do them in inches for the first calculator I found, though I think in cm. It said I was in the normal risk range).
I'm not sure how accurate my measuring was, though. But I've always been very hourglass shaped.

Cinderella you'll be back at your goal weight in no time.

Well done on your NSV granny.

Emgee clothing is a great way of gauging your progress. I used to have a pair of trousers for the same purpose, but got so slim they were huge, so I ditched them. Perhaps it's for the best, as I've had another baby since and doubt I would get one leg in!

FD here after 3 NFD where I weighed and counted everything. Only had one glass of wine all weekend too.

Had my kettlebells class in the morning, followed by an hour in the gym. Feel very sleepy and tired, which isn't like me at all, so had a long bath and a lounge on the sofa whilst my youngest had a nap.

Really looking forward to dinner, which I think will be some of yesterday's left over roast chicken made into a salad.

Good luck Monday fasters! I'll check in later to see how you are all doing.

I'm back after a few days break.

I spoke to my GP regarding the toilet issues and he was pretty useless and said they can prescribe me Movicol or senna. Seeing as I pay for my prescription I wasn't prepared to pay the £9 so I went to the chemist and bought some over the counter constipation relief pills. And have also bought a fibre supliment.

I've been off plan for 5 days and have gained 5.6lbs and binged.

I'm really annoyed with myself but back on the waggon today and it's my FD.

I have decided to go back to basics using MFP and I'm going to weigh all my food and keep a log.

A couple of FD with controlled NFD in between and the extra weight (mostly indigested food and water retention I'd imagine) will shift qucking.

I had pesto chicken & butternut squash salad for dinner, followed by an apple. Came in at 450. Then I pinched a chunk of banana dipped in warm salted caramel from my kid's dessert!

I've a can of Fanta Zero in the fridge if I fancy it later.

Hang in their folks!

Hope everyone's FDs are going ok. I'm hanging in there. I had a chicken salad followed by tangerine for lunch and just had a mushroom omelette and more salad for tea. Total so far is 460 and I'm peckish but think I can hold out - might have a cup of tea later but that will be it. The best thing is that I've not had my usual lightheadedness today. Fingers crossed my body's getting more used to this fasting lark!

Kitchen closed at 543.

Really pleased with how it has gone today. It is definitely easier the more you do it. You get the hang of it again quite quickly.

I have had:

A hard boiled egg
A grape and apple pack
Prawns with tinned tomatoes and a frozen stir fry packet (I use the tescos oriental stir fry)
2 x 10 cal jellies with blueberries and seeds

Hello
Can I join please?

I've been doing sw for 2 years and lost 3 stone but have completely plateaued.
I was 14 stone 3lbs when I began and I'm now 11 stone 4lbs. I really want to be 10 stone 7lbs at 5ft 5.

I've bought the fasting books and had a few fasting days which I really enjoyed.
I'm doing 5:2 with sw combined.

Loved reading all the posts.

Onwards and downwards.....

Welcome, Calzone Good to hear you are enjoying fasting.
5:2 combines well with SW - just gives you that extra calorie deficit to help boost weight loss

Welcome back, cinderella You are obviously an experienced hand
You've maintained really well, only 2-3 kg added in 4 years
That'll probably go within the next few weeks, along with a couple of inches from your waist.

You sound really on track with fasting and your exercise, Maz

Well done on your FDs too, Blossom, Foldfinch Good progress with the fasting.

duck You've escaped binge mode now, after your understandable disappointment with the GP.
So, just move on and hopefully your bowels will, too
Don't worry. Once your constipation eases, you'll probably drop quite a few lb quite quickly
Do stay close to a loo while you're taking that fiber, though !

Qucking - do you like avocados by any chance? If half an avocado a day has the same effect on you that it does on me it should help get things going.

Goldfinch - pleased to hear the light-headedness seems to have stayed away today.

After a ropey start my FD was uneventful. I was planning on splitting my calories again and having a couple of eggs before this evening's run but I ran out of time (need to eat 3 hours before) so ran without having eaten. Had no expectation of a good run, so was surprised it went well with anticipated exhaustion not making an appearance, so body must be getting used to exercising on empty. 20 mins into the run the wind started to gust and the heavens opened with horizontal stair rods of rain. Could hardly see where I was going for about 5 mins as water streamed into my eyes and covered my glasses. Soaked through to the skin. Another 20 mins as we were finishing and the sky was clearing to leave last vestiges of blue. Squelched into Waitrose looking like a drowned rat to pick up a bottle of water and pack of ham to eat on the way home.

When I got in I made myself a salad of beetroot, tomatoes and 50g avocado to go with my soup. According to MFP total for day is 507 cals.

BigChoc I have been using MFP for the past few weeks although it's difficult to be accurate at weekends as my OH does most of the cooking but I do have a pretty good idea of portion control. Only thing different this weekend was that OH bought a delicious honey-on-the-comb from the local farmers market and I have indulged in a few honey sandwiches. Maybe the combination of high carb and high sugar sabotaged any chance of weight loss? Fortunately it didn't sabotage my waist loss. Will put remainder of honey in fridge out of sight.

Welcome Cinderella and Calzone. Cinderella like Maz says hopefully the extra weight will drop quite quickly. Calzone - well done on the 3 stones you've lost, that's a huge (no pun intended) achievement. I find being on a plateau unreasonably demoralising which is why NSVs are so important.

Round of applause for all Monday fasters, think we nailed it today.

Well done on your FD and your hardcore monsoon exercise, granny

Have you rechecked your TDEE cals ? - remember Mosely says to take on exercise level less than you think.
If you are within TDEE over your 5 NFDs and cut the sugary treats & alcohol, then patience & persistence should crack the weight plateau.

If a plateau lasts 4 weeks, then I suggest a short sharp shock, e.g. 2-3 weeks of the plateau-buster 4:3 or going dry and low carb

TDEE at one exercise level less than you think

Thanks BigChoc. My TDEE on "lightly active" is 1515 cals so quite low. I'm generally exercising 5-6 days per week, usually just over the hour - my long run is edging up to 7 miles so even at steady pace quite calorie-burning. Other than 3 x run per week and 3 x gym classes (plus one yoga class) per week, some days I can be quite sedentary. Alcohol generally not an issue - I only drank Friday this week although I did get through half a bottle of wine.

Am on holiday beginning of June for two weeks - will be hiking 4-7 hours per day up and down hill for 10 of the 14 days. Hope I can shift just a bit of weight before then - the thought of 4:3 or low carb is not at all appealing!

Yesterday's kitchen closed at about 520 so overall a good day.

Welcome to Cinderella and Calzone and good luck to all of today's fasters.

After 2 months of me doing 5:2 successfully my (very overweight) DH finally said he would try a FD yesterday. I think he did ok, he said it wasn't too bad and he enjoyed the mushroom omelette and roast veggies I made for supper. Fingers crossed he can stick at it - he has never tried any systematic attempt to lose weight in the 16 years I've known him.

What do you guys think of diet drinks on FDs? I have had a diet coke on my last two FDs. About 5.30pm when I feel like I'm beginning to lag and to get me through kids' supper/homework/bedtime routine before I eat at about 8pm with DH.

I could have marmite 'soup' but by that time of the day, I really crave something 'yummy' and diet coke seems to hit the spot in the way a glass of water/cup of tea/marmite wouldn't.

I don't normally drink much diet coke - the odd one in the summer or when we are eating out and I don't want wine. Is it so bad or should I try and cut it out on FDs???? I did wonder about buying those airline sized cans as I don't need much.