Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 67: You were born to be awesome, not perfect. There's no giant leap to get the shape YOU choose, just many little steps. It's ok if you step slowly, you lap everyone who didn't start

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 06:50

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian ,
Foodie Under 200 Cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • Plateau / Losing & regaining same few lb: Many folk have a plateau after losing 15 lb +, while their body rebalances.
It may also be a longterm "set point" weight, so homeostasis is causing your body to resist losing more fat. Just be patient & you'll break through. However, if this persists for 4 weeks+ then typically you are overeating on NFDs, so aim to average within TDEE - mfp for a week, to reality check.
  • Lots to lose - how to speed up weight loss
Optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week. This helps your body adjust to needing less food as you lose weight. Also trains you how to eat to maintain goal weight.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise.
The OP explains science behind fasting, exercise & health & has many calculators.

Recipe Thread has many FD recipes. Post your own too.

Inspirational Thread has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Destinysdaughter · 16/05/2017 08:48

I love fizzy water, with some fresh lemon or lime juice. Also cranberry juice lite is v low cal too.

Am doing my fast day today instead of Monday this week, love how flexible this diet is! Smile

quckingduck22 · 16/05/2017 09:15

Maz - I hope that happends. Hopefully it will come off as fast as It went on.

BCF - my doctor is honestly useless, his attitude is always your wasting his time. Im over it now it's done time to move on.

Granny - I can honestly say I've never tried a avocado. I've seen them in the supermarket but I dont know what to do with them. That sounds bad I know, I'm 32 for gods sake and to my knowledge not tried them Grin

MazDazzle · 16/05/2017 09:25

Lost 2lbs this week!

It's taken me a year to lose one and a half stone. Sleepless nights and a new baby have been challenging, but now that he's sleeping better I don't reach for the biscuit tin first thing in the morning and I have more energy for exercise. Hopefully the next chunk of weight will shift quicker, but if not then I'll settle for another one and a half stone off by this time next year!

CinderellasBroom · 16/05/2017 09:50

Thanks BigChoc Granny and Grifone - I'm hoping it'll be fairly quick. And I was a bit horrified that I'm half an inch over the top advised waist measurement for women (according to the NHS advice) - I thought I couldn't possibly be as I'm happily wearing size 10s (in some cases, stuff from pre-kids, so over ten years ago), so it was a bit of a shock.

I wish you could target weight loss - tummy and thighs would be ideal, but I really don't want to have to buy any more expensive bras in slightly different sizes! In fact, one reason I stopped at 60kg last time was because I was already a 28 back size, and I haven't found anywhere that sells 26 backs in anything like the cup size I need.

Destinysdaughter · 16/05/2017 17:49

Had a good FD today, porridge for breakfast, a tangerine at 2, just had my chickpea curry and I'm done! Ate and drank loads at weekend but didn't put any weight on Smile. Going to make a lentil and black bean soup for Thursday my next FD, this is definitely not so hard!

EmGee · 16/05/2017 20:04

Qucking avocados are lovely chopped up and added at the last minute to salad. You can also add them to smoothies to bulk them out (they turn the smoothie a nice mint green!). Guacamole is easy to make - mash the avocado, add lemon or lime juice and some of the spice mix from those fajita spice packs.

One of my favourite suppers includes avocado (just had it now!) - saute mushrooms, garlic and chopped cherry tomatoes. Add spinach at the last minute (to wilt). Put this mix on a slice of German-style bread (or sourdough type bread) and add a poached/fried egg. Garnish with avocado slices. Yum! Not sure how many cals in this so might be too many for a FD.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2017 20:12

Congrats on your SV, Maz That's good your lo is letting you sleep now.

Well done on your FD, Destiny Sounds like you have really got into the fasting swing

Well done to your DH too, Pangolin on his 1st FD and good luck to him.
Remember he can have 600 cals, or 25% of his TDEE if that's higher (i.e. if he's a big bloke)

EmGee It's Ok to have diet drinks if you find this helps, FDs and NFDs. A few folk find they increase cravings, in which case stop. Otherwise, whatever works for you.
The only things "banned" on FDs are alcohol and sugary treats / junk food

Granny Sounds like you're at the pre / meno stage.
If so, then 5:2 / IF is the only weight loss method that seems to work, BUT it takes LOTS more patience.
It's a bugger, but you do reach goal if you persist < minus all the hair you tore out >

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2017 20:16

You've not much weight to lose Cinderella
If the excess is concentrated around your middle, then this is usually due to excess sugar / treat carbs / alcohol.

So, keep within nhs alcohol limits and try to keep sweet treats sensible - you have at least the 2 FDs free of these.
What can help with cutting down is to either have them every other day, or to 2:5 them - i.e. only have them on 2 NFDs weekly

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/05/2017 20:19

How to Measure Waist
. women - the narrowest point, above the navel
. men - around the navel

ntbo, do NOT
. suck anything in
. or clench your buttocks
. or take a deep breath and hold it
. or pull the tape tightly- it's not a corset !

Make sure tape is horizontal around your body - not sloping - for waist or hips

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 16/05/2017 21:45

Great work all those on FD today! Sounds like everyone is doing really well!!

NFD here and I've not even counted calories. Bad. I had a cake from the charity sale at work and a few chips with my asparagus salad in the pub at lunchtime. Very small NSV though I managed to do a short sharp HIIT training session - sounds insignificant but it's a major achievement for me to find the time. Hoping I'll now get into the swing and find the time at least a few times a week. FD again for me tomorrow.

GrannyGrown · 16/05/2017 23:15

BigChoc - I went through the menopause well over a decade ago in my very late 40s with fortunately nothing worse than the occasional hot flush - but it's only in the past 6 months that I noticed my waist had not only disappeared but was beginning to look like an inflated balloon.

Fortunately 5:2 does seem to be working. If only weight loss was mirroring waist loss, but as you've already pointed out, it's the shrinking waist that's more important as my BMI is within healthy range.

Congratulations on your successful FD Destiny, your 2lb loss Maz and your NSV Goldfinch .

Qucking - if you decide to try avocado then give them a sneaky gentle squeeze before you buy. They should "give" just a little bit. A lot of them are hard as bullets and often stay as hard as bullets. I prefer the ones that look knobbly on the outside, very dark green colour (and not the paler green smooth ones which I find a bit watery). I've never liked butter or any kind of spread on bread, hate mayo or salad cream too but slices of avocado in a plain chicken or ham (or bacon) sandwich moisten it up deliciously and give me much needed good fats. Nice mashed up and on toast too!

BigChocFrenzy · 17/05/2017 00:17

duck I'm sure most of us have foods we've not tried yet. Avocados are worth getting to know, v healthy too
I enoy them with smoked salmon / crayfish / prawns & lashing of lemon & garlic on salad

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 17/05/2017 10:42

Woke up ravenous!

However, a couple of glasses of water and a few coffees later and it has passed.

I've found that not eating until at least 12pm on NFDs is the key to success for me. The fewer meals my TDEE has to be split between, then the more satisfying my meals are. Lunch and an early dinner followed by an evening snack is the plan today.

I have a HIIT class later today which I love. It's my favourite half hour of the week!

SingingGoldfinch · 17/05/2017 13:19

FD here and weirdly not that hungry!?! I've not eaten a thing yet and whilst I could easily eat something I'm not ravenous so thinking I might push on through until tea time and have a bigger meal then. It's amazing how your body adapts!

GrannyGrown · 17/05/2017 18:17

Hope your FD is still on track Goldfinch.

Maz i've never done a HIIT class as my local gym doesn't do them. I may search out a youtube class for tomorrow as I've had to cancel my kettle bell class. Monday I blistered the inside first knuckle of my left index finger and it has become infected and swollen. Germoline seems to be working well but I still can't grip properly with it. Very annoying. On the other hand I've been able to say yes to baby-sitting tomorrow lunchtime so at least someone's happy.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/05/2017 19:11

I hope your FD is going well, Goldfinch and all the other fasters

Enjoy your fav 30 mins of the week, Maz Smile and tell us what you did

Sorry to hear of your injury, Granny
Can you do Tabata Pressups instead of kettles (8 sets, each 20 secs long with 10 secs recovery between sets)

OP posts:
SingingGoldfinch · 17/05/2017 20:50

Sorry to hear about your injury Granny. Sounds nasty but wise to skip your kettle ball class tomorrow. If you're after training you can do at home I recommend Jillian Michaels 30 Day Shred - just a 20 min workout but my goodness, did I ache this morning!! I managed to do it again this evening too which I'm pleased about.

FD ending on about 400 cals. Held off all day until tea time when I had a baked sweet potato with tuna, sweet corn and natural yoghurt and a pile of rocket. It was yummy! I also had a tiny sugar free Werthers Original at my choir rehearsal this evening but don't think that'll tip me over!

Looking forward to dinner and a few drinks with a friend tomorrow eve now and nice to feel like I've earned it!

Hope all other fasters have had a good day and good luck to all those fasting tomorrow!

MazDazzle · 17/05/2017 21:37

It's a Cage Fitness class. 5 x 5 min. rounds with 1 min. rest between each round. I love it!

I enjoy kettlebells Granny, but the pain/blisters puts me off committing to a regular class.

2 SVs to report. I tried on my old pre-baby work out clothes today. They fit! Felt fab wearing them. They are lovely and bright, rather than drab black. Also, according to my Fitbit app my cardio fitness level is slowly improving. Started at Fair, then Average, now I'm at Average - Good.

Well done on your FD Goldfinch! Your dinner sounds yummy.

Destinysdaughter · 17/05/2017 21:44

What I'm currently loving about this is, the usual reasons why pp fall off diets is the deprivation/rebellion thing that often happens, as well as thinking that if you fail one day, you might as well give up. Thinking that, I can have xyz food tomorrow and I just have to do this for one day, makes it very doable. Feel v positive about this right now, and even if the weight loss is v slow, it's better than putting it on!

SingingGoldfinch · 17/05/2017 22:10

Well done on your SVs Maz - fitting in your pre-baby workout gear has got to be a real boost!!! Yippee!!!

I couldn't agree more on this being so much easier to stick to than other diets Destiny! It feels more like a way of eating or approaching your relationship with food rather than a diet in fact. I've never done any other diets (other than a bit of basic calorie counting) and started this because of the health benefits (my mum has recently been diagnosed with diabetes) and just to lose a few pounds but I can genuinely see it becoming a way of life, even if I end up doing just one FD a week as maintenance eventually.

GrannyGrown · 17/05/2017 23:38

Good idea about the JM shred Goldfinch - I have her dvd gathering dust somewhere (or maybe under a coffee cup!). I only ever got as far as level 2 as I found the same exercise every day boring. Be interesting to see how it goes. A definite maybe. And more appealing than tabata push-ups. (Sorry BigChoc). I managed 4 press ups yesterday, then another 2 after 30 seconds rest, then another 1 before nothing happened when I tried to push myself up off the floor.

Well done on your SVs Maz. Great achievement! The gym I go to does to boxercise but using the communal sweaty gloves does not appeal at all.

One NSV victory for me today. Had really demoralising "why do I bother with this" evening class tonight and managed to avoid finding solace in a bag of donuts. Bought avocados instead.

Destinysdaughter · 17/05/2017 23:44

Are there any guidelines on how many calories you should be eating on your NFD? Am not eating loads to overcompensate, but don't want to mess up all the good work-

GrannyGrown · 17/05/2017 23:56

Destiny there's a calculator for this in the OP - hopefully I've managed a successful link here TDEE Calc

Just need to put in your vital statistics and set your activity level one below what it actually is.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2017 06:34

That class sounds fantastic, Maz and martial arts are superb for fitness
Well done on your NSVs

Destiny The idea of 5:2 is that the FDs are the 2 "diet" days and the NFDs are the 5 "maintenance" days, on which you eat about TDEE.
So you can calculate TDEE as granny said.

Most folk lose on 5:2 without ever counting on NFDs,
but if you find you are losing more slowly than average, then I recommend mfp for a week - this can give a reality check wrt portion size or amount of sugary treats & booze.

Some folk who have been overweight a long time have got used to eating far more than their individual body (not their OH's) can burn, so they need to retrain their habits to enable longterm weight management.

The average weekly loss is 1lb ( usually the first 2 weeks are higher)
However, those with a few stone to drop often lose more quickly, 3-4 lb for several weeks, whereas those starting already at healthy BMI may lose well below 1lb weekly, as could those in menopause.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2017 06:38

Granny On the exercise thread, B&W (maintainer, 4 years on 5:2) has shared his pressup challenges - he did over 1200 pressups for charity at age 78 !
Any lurker who can beat that ?

I did 800 pressure, just for fun, the Xmas before last, because my gym class was cancelled and I wanted to see how many I could do, in good form.
I'm not as strong as B&W , because I'm only 60 Smile

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread