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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Overtiredbackagain · 08/02/2017 13:39

I'm an online WW Smart Point member and have 30 daily and 35 weekly allowance. TBH I've yo-yo'd badly over last six months but that's down to the fact I have so much going on at home, I've not applied myself.

I'm only on my second FD, I had a NFD yesterday following points, and found it much better and I feel much better, but maybe my head is in the right place now. I'd like to lose two stone, but a stone would help massively right now, as I need to be fit and healthy right now for my daughter.

FleshEmoji · 08/02/2017 15:34

Afternoon all, hope everyone is doing well. Today is a non-fast day but not a weekend go a bit mad day, so I've stuck to my usual 200 calorie salad for lunch, and dinner is faggots from the market, mashed celeriac and something green. There may also be gin - my boss gave me a bottle of hop gin yesterday!

Anyone got any ready meals they recommend for fast days? I like fresh food generally but sometimes all the calorie counting gets a bit much and it would be nice to pull a 400 calorie packet from the freezer.

MalmseyWhine · 08/02/2017 15:52

FleshEmoji I had a healthy balance type meal from Tesco - chicken saag and potatoes for 332 calories. It was really tasty as well.

InspiredinUS · 08/02/2017 18:27

NFD today but keeping to around 1500 cals goal tdee range. I had a horrible time sleeping last night. I remember this happening the last time j did 5:2 on fasting days. I can't have this happen every fast. Makes the next day rough and want to eat everything.any advices on what to do?
Craving carbs like crazy today but know I will stay in calorie range. Goodluck to all you fasters!!!

TheDowagerCuntess · 08/02/2017 19:29

Two successful FDs this week, but a not so successful S(non-)V this morning - put on 0.1kg since last week. Pretty disappointed as I went to bed early and very hungry last night.

Onwards and upwards.

Good luck to everyone finishing up their FDs!

InspiredinUS · 08/02/2017 19:55

Dowager, for some odd reason I am always up the day after a fast and then the 2nd morning after a fast I am down. Happens every time!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2017 22:13

Dowager Weight can naturally fluctuate by a couple of lb per week, or at totm by several lb.
This is because of hormonal swings, retained water, undigested food etc
So, this can easily disguise an average 1lb weekly loss.

Monitor the weight over the weeks and you should see a downward trend
If you sts for 3 weeks, then I recommend checking NFDs.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2017 22:26

Inspired Many folk feel extra alert on FDs, which can lead to difficulty sleeping until their body fully adjusts to the new system.

Also, sometimes people alter other habits on FDs, which lead to sleeplessness:

  • increased consumption of caffeine e.g. coffee, diet coke ==> avoid caffeine after 3pm
  • exercising just before bed ==> keep 3 hrs gap before bedtime
  • electronic devices for distraction, just before bed ==> keep 1hr gap

What works for some folk:
save most of your cals for supper, so you don't go to bed hungry

If you don't fancy doing that, then check the type of FD food & drink:

  • Go lower GI and aim to stabilise blood sugar ==> boost protein, veg, beans & lentils. Move towards wholegrain carbs rather than simple ones
  • Cut out any sugary treat, breakfast cereal, fruit juice
  • Try replacing fruit on FDs with raw veg
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2017 22:33

NFDs are maintenance days.
So I suggest those on WW have their maintenance days except keep your treat allowance to that of a WW weight loss day
i.e. boost normal food so you feel satisfied, but don't increase treats

btw, some folk with quite a bit to lose like to have a least one weekly FD where they are eating the way they would need to maintain their goal weight (since their goal TDEE would be significantly lower than current TDEE)
MrD has started this tactic.
It has advantages: boosts weight loss, trains how to eat for maintenance, helps you get used gradually to the lower amount of food your body needs as it becomes smaller, stone after stone.

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 08/02/2017 23:58

Thanks for the encouraging words - disappointing, but not going to lose heart!

I feel like it's working, so that's the main thing.

I've just started using MFP to help track. I used to use it a long time ago, before I did 5:2 the previous time.

I logged yesterday's calories and it gave me a firm telling off, as it was only about 540 calories! 😵 Do people just ignore this?

FleshEmoji · 09/02/2017 05:34

Thanks Malmsley, will try that one.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2017 07:51

Dowager Are you also monitoring waist & hips, or clothes fit ?
Sometimes the scales take a while to catch up, but - if you are not significantly exceeding TDEE on NFDs - then they should do so soon.
btw, it may help to calculate TDEE for one activity level lower than you think - Mosely recommends this because most folk overestimate their activity

OP posts:
Overtiredbackagain · 09/02/2017 08:19

Second successful FD yesterday, kitchen closed around 590 so I'm happy with that. Sneaky peek on the scales this morning and since Monday I'm down 3.5lb since Monday morning and have dropped into the lower stone bracket Grin

Feeling much more alert and need to catch up on sleep! Instead of setting myself an ultimate weight loss goal, I have decided to set mini goals, the first being half a stone.

OohMrDarcy · 09/02/2017 09:22

Morning all

Just about scraped within TDEE yesterday, ended up taking the DC out for dinner as I was so proud of an achievement from one of them, we had a lovely time so was worth it. Luckily I hadn't been hungry before that so hadn't eaten much!

FD here and am onto second bottle of water already - I think its approx 600ml so nearly a litre in already Smile

Dowager - keep going and it will come... also make sure you drink LOTS of water on FD - helps flush out the system I feel, and also keeps you from feeling hungry! Oh and yes, MFP always tells me off on FDs - so I just don't hit the complete button on them now!

Well done everyone else, sounds like good days all around!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2017 11:13

Well done on your SV and new milestone, overtired
Congrats to your DC, MrD and naturally to you, as I'm sure you supported them brilliantly in their achievement.

OP posts:
InspiredinUS · 09/02/2017 11:56

Morning fasters! Was under tdee (goal weight) yesterday. Didn't make the best food choices but counted the calories. Fasting day number 2 for the week for me today. Not sure what's on the menu but need to watch my carb intake as it been creeping in lately. Have a great day everyone!

Notreallyhappy · 09/02/2017 13:01

Afternoon all.
Well done on sv/nsv going on here. Whether it's lbs down or keeping in/on tdee it's a milestone for us.

Thanks BCF about the maintenance info. WW points are done for loss and after a fd my would be allowance is quite low in calories, ending up going binky in the biscuit box for a quick fix.
Smile for your little ones mrd. my oh always laughs at me "with my sweaty eyes" when our ds did something to be proud of.
Fd 2 here, to eat now or later that's the question. Am 2 litres water & a gym trip in.

Bellenddingdong · 09/02/2017 19:06

Hello fasters and farters, the last couple of days have been a mixture of both for me! Yesterday was a good fast day and today has been another non binge though I have had quite heavy meals and felt rather full. Today is also the fifth day in a row that I haven't had a binge. This is good going for me. There's usually no stopping me after a fast day, I would literally eat anything in sight.

The next couple of days will be tough since we have friends coming for a meal tomorrow night, dh is cooking Indian curries, there will be alcohol and pudding too. I will try my best. Sunday I am taking my girls out for a meal, we have restaurant vouchers which expire this weekend, so we really can't waste them. I will try my best and hardest to keep in the zone. I am really wanting a loss this week.

A big thank you to everybody who post on here. It really does help when I am tempted to stick my head in the buscuit barrel!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/02/2017 19:40

Well done on good NFD habits, bellend
Big meals should keep you going until the next meal, without snacks or binges.

What can also help is to regard each FD not as a single day, but as a "fasting pair" of an FD and a sensible NFD following.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 09/02/2017 20:25

Evening all

FD mission complete! Thats 2 weeks of FDs and successful NFDs - I don't think that has happened since just before my holiday in August! Kitchen closed on 506 today which I'm pleased with.

Fingers crossed the scales have some more positive news for me tomorrow - they should do of course, I'm eating better than I have in ages in general, and that's without the fasting days! Food shop has arrived for the next 10 days or so so plenty of protein and got some eggs in too for a bit of variety. Also got the ingredients to make a chilli. I've never made one before - was always on the list of 'foods I don't eat' which I've been chipping away at since starting 5:2 ... had one new years eve which I enjoyed so I'm going in with the slow cooker, will probably portion up and freeze as doubt the kids will like it but we'll see!

Well done to everyone who is going strong!

MazDazzle · 09/02/2017 22:44

Successful FD complete Grin AND I've had 7 successful NFD/FD in a row. The new Fitbit has kept me move, move, moving so tomorrow I am expecting a decent loss.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 07:00

Morning everyone Smile

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

🎺🎺 ....... We have a new NEW 5:2 Thread # 67 ....... 🎺🎺

🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/02/2017 07:01

Well done, Maz and MrD !
You now have the fasting habit NSV

OP posts:
InspiredinUS · 11/02/2017 13:14

Was really bummed. 2 fast at about 560ish cals. A couple days at 1200 cals and a couple others under ttdd. Also exercised good. And I gained 3 lbs? Wtf. Was totally bummed. I know I know....water and bloat but still. Hoping to get a down ward trend going this week...Confused

TheDowagerCuntess · 11/02/2017 18:42

Feel your pain Inspired. Flowers