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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 03/02/2017 09:33

Morning all

4.5lb down this morning!!!! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2017 11:45

Brilliant SV, MrD

Welcome, Refurb Smile and well done on your 1st FD back

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 03/02/2017 12:56

Second FD today.

It's definitely my first weekend FD since having my baby.

I'm determined to succeed!

Bought a Fitbit this week and although I know they overestimate steps/calories etc I'm very interested in the heart rate tracker. It definitely motivates me to move more and push myself. Any one else on here have one or similair?

OohMrDarcy · 03/02/2017 14:12

I use the step counter on my google fit app on my phone and I have a garmin for long walks and runs - I do find the info useful.

Good luck for your FD

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2017 20:44

How are you doing on your FD Maz ? Not long to go

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 03/02/2017 21:07

Kitchen closed at 460. Had ostrich steak with fried onions, mushrooms and peppers with a side salad of mozzarella, basil, tomatoes and balsamic vinegar. It was selfish! DH sitting with a glass of wine, but I have resisted. Sitting with a Coke Zero.

This is day one of the Fitbit and I am hooked already! The app is great. I can't see me using MFP anymore when I can track my food on the Fitbit app. I have been marching around town today and running up and down the stairs. It definitely encourages you to move more and push yourself. Can't wait to try it out at my HIIT class.

4.5lb MrD! That is spectacular. I won't tell you how long it's taken me to lose that Blush.

Weigh day tomorrow. Praying for 0.5lb to take me to my first stone.

MazDazzle · 03/02/2017 21:09

It was selfish? Grin Bloody autocorrect. It's supposed to say delish!

OohMrDarcy · 03/02/2017 22:03

Well done Maz - sounds like you smashed your FD with your very selfish (and delish!) Ostritch steak!

I've managed a target TDEE day today which I'm over the moon with, the plan is to be doing at least one of those a week to get used to the right way of eating...

Celebrating with a glass of pinot to remember my friend (in the cals count) and thinking about other changes I can and will make!

4.5lb Maz - its a big whack I agree - but I know at least half of that must be water, I've just been hooked on carbs for ages now so was breaking that pattern... plus , I have a lot to lose so it comes off quicker... how close to goal are you?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2017 22:55

Well done on your delic selfish FD, Maz

Excellent decision, MrD to have a weekly "goal" TDEE NFD.
It's good training for maintenance later to have a feel for what you need then.
During the weight loss phase, recalculate TDEE every stone and this gradually gets closer to goal TDEE

OP posts:
Overtiredbackagain · 04/02/2017 08:37

Sad woke up full of flu! No time to be ill.

4.5lb is amazing loss, is that first week weigh-in?

My plan is to cut carbs this weekend in preparation for first FD on Monday and follow WW on NFD, will that work? Although I've been tracking WW and what would be calories on NFD, WW is free fruit, whereas the 500g of grapes I would normally munch through would be 360 calories on a NFD?! Hmm

LiveThroughThis · 04/02/2017 09:05

Hi all, I've successfully lost weight using 5:2 a few years ago and would like to get back on it for this last stone!

Does anyone know of fasting has any effect on propranolol and citralopram? I'm on 10mg of each.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 12:37

overtired I recommend you try the first 2 weeks on 5:2 without counting callries on NFDs, just your normal WW - with 2 changes:

  • No snacking between meals.
    Have any fruit, win, choc etc as part of a meal
    Start with 3 or 4 meals on NFDs and see how you feel

  • Keep to only 2 portions of fruit per day
    A portion is either a whole apple / pear / banana / orange etc or is 80g weight for grapes, berries etc

On FDs, count your calories,
For FDs, go low carb: fruit juice, sweet cereals, sugary treats, cereal bars etc and no more than one portion fruit, eaten with protein, not on its own

No alcohol or junk on FDs either - that's the rule for us all

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 12:41

Livethrough You need to consult your GP about what is safe for your particular body
If they are concerned about 2 x 500 cal FDs, then ask if instead 1000 cals on Mon+Wed+ Fri would be ok

As I recommend to everyone: don't fast totally, i.e. even on a FD, you should always be eating about your 500 cals in total for the day.
And drink plenty of water

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/02/2017 12:44

overtired oops, My ipad deleted a "no" !
Low carb is NO fruit juice, sweet cereals, sugary treats, cereal bars etc

OP posts:
Overtiredbackagain · 05/02/2017 08:48

Thanks Choc. I'll try that on NFD, see how it goes. On FD I don't eat during the day, I just save for allowance for dinner, so just water and milk-free drinks during the day.

OohMrDarcy · 05/02/2017 21:10

Evening all

Think I've had a pretty good weekend foof wise here.one or under TDEE both days I think and only 2 glasses of wine drunk ( 1 Friday and one today)

Tomorrow will be a FD I think as heading into the big smoke for a meeting Tues and suspect the company will be feeding us!

Brought myself a new big water bottle yesterday to ensure I keep the drinuking going, it's fab and I'm finding if I keep it on me I just keep sipping away - perfect.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/02/2017 22:40

Well done on a disciplined weekend and good planning for the coming week, MrD

OP posts:
Newmanwannabe · 06/02/2017 00:15

If you steamed 1 chicken breast (skinless, with some BBQ flavoured seasoning) with 600ml water, (in a Thermomix) how many calories do you think the resulting stock of 200ml would be?

Bellenddingdong · 06/02/2017 06:18

Morning, I am a long time lurker and have been doing 5:2 since the programme 5 (?) years ago. I have jumped on and off the wagon throughout this time and tried all manner of diets/woe. I always return here as, for me, it's the easiest thing to do.

I am fine on fast days and find them a doddle really. What I struggle with is that my body/mind seems set to binge eat after a fast day. I can't get into the same mind frame as fast days. It's like watching somebody else rooting the food cupboards for any bit of food I can find. It's almost primal.

I don't have much weight to lose but I would like to shift half a stone for the summer holiday. I know the advice you give for Nfd bigchoc, I do my best to follow these but I really do struggle.

I just wondered if anybody else feels like this or have any tips that may help.

Also I wondered if chewing gum is adviseable on fast days and inbetween meals on nfd? I have it at work after a coffee and find it can take the edge off hunger.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2017 07:33

Good luck, Monday fasters Smile

Bellend I suggest you menu plan in advance the NFDs that follow FDs, just as carefully as you plan FDs
For those NFDs, plan 3 or 4 meals, no snacks, boost protein & veg, lower GI.
Cut out any known triggers, e.g. alcohol, fruit juice, breakfast cereal, sweet treats, crisps, carby junk of any kind.
That still leaves 3 NFDs where you can enjoy those treats & wine

For some people, sugar-free gum helps; for others the sweet taste spikes hunger.
So, depends on the individual.
btw, careful if you have several pieces: in excess, it can cause flatulence. Also, on FDs the calories matter if you are getting through packets - check the label.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/02/2017 07:35

It usually takes at least a month to form new habits of any kind, so be patient

OP posts:
Overtiredbackagain · 06/02/2017 08:21

Oddly looking forward to my first FD today Grin Black coffee and hot water will be my best friend today.

OohMrDarcy · 06/02/2017 09:33

Good luck today Overtired - you'll be fine!

I'm in my zone, water on the go and ready for another FD day

MalmseyWhine · 06/02/2017 10:57

Hello - I'm back in here after successful weight loss a couple of years ago. 5:2 seems the most effective way of eating for me. I've piled on weight recently after a bout of ill health that make me very inactive and I have a few remaining health niggles that I know can be improved by losing weight.

DH has been on the plan for a about 3 weeks and has done really well so I am going to join him and see where it goes.

First FD today. Have had a cup of tea for breakfast and have an evening meal already prepared for around 330 calories. Have cup a soups and miso soups in hand to ward off nibbly tendencies. If I feel I need something at lunchtime, I have salad, eggs and ham in the fridge.

InspiredinUS · 06/02/2017 13:56

Hello 5:2ers! I lost weight a few years ago doing 5:2. Back again to shake things up! I had a successful week last week with 2 fasts and being accountable the rest of the time. I would like to lose 25 lbs by April 1st. Not sure if that is realistic or not but I'm gonna give it all I got!
Today is fasting day for me. Looking forward to it!
Love reading all your post! You all are inspiring!
What other threads are good to read and keep you motivated???? Any suggestions?