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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 31/01/2017 20:51

Evening all - I've done it Grin

At least I nearly have! I've had my dinner and am just on the water again now until bed, I've had about 3.5 Litres today - starting to suspect I've been pretty dehydrated for a while!

I'm feeling really good, remembered my old mantra of "I can have it tomorrow"

well done on the success don'tknow - though hope the argument with DH is sorted soon

Good luck for your FD Dowager!

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 31/01/2017 22:00

Yay well done mrdarcy and good luck stepping on the scales cuntess

I'm off to bed. I know the old saying you should never go to bed on an argument but I really can't be arsed! Night everyone Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2017 07:48

Well done on nailing your 1st FD back, MrD You are back in the fasting swing.
Keep drinking water today.

Well done on your FD too, DontKnow and I'm sure the row tuned you up properly for a good bellow in choir practice. Shout it out therapy Wink

Good luck, Dowager and all the other Wednesday fasters

btw, the essentials whatever your maintenance plan:

  • No snacking, ever
  • Weigh at least weekly and if you gain 4 lb over Happy Weight, resume full 5:2 (with calorie deficit) immediately
  • Resume 5:2 immediately after any holiday break - write in your 1st date back when you book the hols. It's too easy to put this off, so then several weeks getting back on track becomes tough.
OP posts:
Neenook · 01/02/2017 08:57

Hi may I join you all?
I've done 5:2 before with good results but over the last year have piled on the weight again. Now 5'5 and 11st 13 Blush

Planning to start today with a FD and still track on NFD. I think posting on here will help me stay on track especially when I reach my target. Need to get down to 9 - 9st 6.

TheDowagerCuntess · 01/02/2017 09:27

Hi Neenook!

I'm another one who's done 5:2 successfully in the past, and then slipped out of the WOE. Determined to rethink things this time.

Successful FD2 for me. A few cups of tea, and a small red Thai curry for dinner.

In bed now!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2017 11:58

Welcome, Neenok Smile and good luck on reaching your goals

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 01/02/2017 18:33

Weigh in for me here on Thursdays morning, and I've lost nearly a kilo since last week - the scales wavered between 0.9 and 0.8 before landing on the latter.

Very happy with that progress.

Good luck for everyone on the evening of their second FD. Smile

OohMrDarcy · 01/02/2017 21:03

Evening all

I've just about squeezed a TDEE day today which I'm pleased with. Drinking plenty of water too... AND turned down desert after dinner tonight!

Another FD tomorrow Where I have a plan of another piece of cheese and raw carrot at lunch, and then some left over beef stew for dinner which is approx 400 cals so should be good - fingers crossed!

Did a sneaky scales check this morning and am very pleased, will see what Friday official weigh day brings!

Welcome Neenook, keep posting and you'll be fine

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2017 21:40

Congrats on your SV, Dowager

That's a good start back, MrD

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 01/02/2017 22:04

Sorry Dowager - missed your SV - well done!

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 02/02/2017 08:20

well done cuntess and MrD

My DS is 6 tomorrow and i have to make a cake tonight and ice it in buttercream the food of the gods tomorrow - how am i going to cope Shock also got family visiting all weekend so will try and make very sensible choices and not have breakfast etc, but think I can write this week off. Back on it sunday as soon as they've all sodded off Grin

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 02/02/2017 08:21

weekend not week - i've been V V good so far Grin

Overtiredbackagain · 02/02/2017 08:38

Rejoining Wink

OohMrDarcy · 02/02/2017 09:22

Morning all

I'm checking in for FD2 of W1 of 2017 - Second pint of water on the go, food planned... this mornings scales check pleasantly showed no gain overnight so hopefully I drank enough water yesterday to maybe have even more in time for the weekly weigh in!

don'tknow - happy birthday for your DS for tomorrow, I'd say go with your instinct there... its your sons birthday - enjoy it with him.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2017 11:24

Good luck to MrD and all the other Thursday fasters
< waves to tired >

Enjoy DS's birthday cake, dontknow
For the other days, I recommend you just enjoy the meals BUT no snacking and if possible keep your sweet "treats" for pud

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 02/02/2017 12:12

Checking in again (keeps me focused whilst I get in the zone)

currently on 3.5 pints of water and nothing else

Planned food comes in at 525 cals for today

Been signed off from physio (pelvic alignment problem from c sections / spd) so jogged home to test it and feel good (only 0.5 mile or so)

Hope any other Thursday fasters are doing well and feeling strong!

Overtiredbackagain · 02/02/2017 13:15

So I've caught up I think with everyone on here.

Quick update from my side:

I've had a crap few months with my youngest DD, who has now been diagnosed with a rare genetic condition, along with her other medical issues. Food and alcohol have been a crutch for me, although whilst following WW for the last three months, I'm still in the same place weight wise. I like WW but obviously, not exactly working for me, so I have decided to fast two days a week, and realised that I need the support to do it. My daughter's disabilities are such that she needs me to be fit and healthy and strong, so I need to get on with it.

Loads of other stuff going on too, DF poorly, massive overpayment issues with HMRC and tax credits - oh joys.

OT x

Notreallyhappy · 02/02/2017 16:16

Overtired : Flowers it's hard when lo are poorly. I found ww a struggle too. I use its priciciples just to keep track on nfd.

Mrd : good news with the physio.

Dontknow : I have b'day cake here too, it's very noisy calling from the tin, trying not to go there. Happy birthday to you lo.

Fd #2, not feeling the best today succumbed to baked beans at lunchtime so fish & weeds salad for tea. It could come out at 700c so mini-ish.

Emison · 02/02/2017 17:10

A 1lb loss this week bringing my total to 5lb in three weeks so I'm really pleased. 10lb to go to my new target Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2017 19:15

Congrats on your SV, Emison You're on your way to yet another milestone Smile

You sound right in the groove for your FDs, MrD Keep on posting and keep on trucking

700 is still a big deficit, Happy Just keep tomorrow a sensible NFD, no snacking and within TDEE; then you're sorted for the week.

You've had a horrendous series of events to cope with, Overtired Flowers so no wonder you have been stress-eating.
However, the high from overeating is temporary and the mood crash afterwards is rotten
Too much alcohol is even worse for making you feel drained & depressed later

Do set aside time to look after yourself, in between caring for everybody else.
5:2 goes well with WW - many find on WW alone that they just eat too much.
Also, fasting can help regulate your insulin metabolism and hence maybe give you more consistent energy levels.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 02/02/2017 20:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

houseRefurb · 02/02/2017 21:22

Hello everyone! I am a newbie here on this thread..First FD in 2 years done!! planning another one on Saturday..Logged into MFP and sorted goals etc.. So, I am telling myself, yes, I am going to sort my health.. Good night everyone

Emison · 02/02/2017 21:23

Thank you both!

houseRefurb · 02/02/2017 21:27

Oops, posted under a wrong name. Successfully done my 1st FD in 2 years..!! Smile

OohMrDarcy · 02/02/2017 21:41

Hi Refurb - good for you, its an ace feeling getting back in the zone

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