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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread No. 66: If you shaved legs & pits, but the scales still screamed "Ow ! Get off !" then join our friendly group for a new approach.

976 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2016 11:31

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally" means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had Eating Disorders you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE if higher) or 1000 cals for BF
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, new skinny jeans

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below as a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp , mfp
Calories for NFD: TDEE Calc
FD Recipes: BBC Good Food 52 , Mosely LowCarb ,
Good2Know , Vegetarian
NHS 10 Recipes under 100 cals , Mirror 5:2 50 snacks under 50 cals
Any Day: Meal Planner
FD Ready Meals, Takeaways, Restaurant: Mirror , Indie
Safe Alcohol: Calc Daily UnitsCalories , Calc Weekly Units

BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Calc Ideal Weight Range
Body Fat: Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body variations ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.

If you exercise, do NOT increase FD cals
Instead, calculate NFD target with your activity level set one level below what you estimate.

  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Most prefer either to skip breakfast & save most cals for supper, or have 2 meals.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
Aim for TDEE, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • To speed up weight loss and to train yourself how to eat on maintenance,
optionally calculate the lower TDEE for goal weight, but eat to current weight TDEE at least 1 day per week.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So don't force yourself to eat, but if hungry then eat nutritious food to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks, alcohol.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Useful MN Threads

Exercise: BigChocFrenzy gives advice & support on combining 5:2 with exercise. The OP explains the science behind fasting, exercise & health and has many calculators.

Tips and Links : BreadandWine collects practical tips & info gained over all the 5:2 threads.

Inspirational EatRiskier has reports from Mumsnet 5:2ers who have lost weight.

Recipes: FrenchFancy has many FD recipes. Post your own here too.

Maintaining: talkinpeace's thread is for those who have successfully lost weight on 5:2/IF and are now maintaining (some for 2 years +)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

A science Study specifically addressed the effect of this diet on obese men & women, wrt health and weight loss:

"... After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant."
i.e. almost all the weight lost was FAT, not muscle or water, - in most diets, 25% of lost weight is muscle, up to 50% for sleb crash diets.

It also describes improved blood values:
"Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%)."

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson showed:
. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Some of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His recent article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Also this interview with a leading researcher into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

Roundup

A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has contributed their experience and tips over all these threads.
This has created a wealth of very valuable practical knowledge to help us all.
Flowers
Any lurkers and newbies, come join us and share your experiences too. These are lovely supportive threads and everyone is welcome !
Smile

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 06/02/2017 14:05

Afternoon checkin here

Glugging away - about 2 litres down already I think here... and extra exercise as I'm constantly running up and down for the loo! Grin

Malmsey welcome, sounds like you've got the right foods in, good luck!

Inspired - welcome! 25lb is possible, but I'd say it depends how much you have to lose - its reasonably likely for me... but I'm very overweight at the moment! If that would take you to an ideal weight its likely to take a bit longer... but keep going and the weight will go eventually! Threads wise, check in here regularly (that works every time for me)

Things to remember for both - drink lots of water, and the phrase "I can have it tomorrow" ... both these are my mantras on 5:2!

MalmseyWhine · 06/02/2017 15:39

Had 2 slices of ham and 2 hard boiled eggs with salad leaves, cucumber and beetroot for lunch at 12.30 and another cup of tea just now. That takes me to 310 calories so far and my evening meal is 330. I don't feel hungry, just slightly 'empty'.

I will switch to drinking water now and have dinner around 5.30-6pm.

Notreallyhappy · 06/02/2017 16:26

Hello returning fasters.
First fd of the week.. ready for tea now but not until 6 when dh gets back from gym. Did my bit this morning.
Need to drink more water... any tips on increasing it. I only had about 1lt today plus some coffee.
Weekend went in a flash but did get a mini in yesterday.
Good luck Monday fasters.x

OohMrDarcy · 06/02/2017 17:01

Hey Not

I just keep a pint glass in front of me (or now my new snazzy bottle) ... as soon as its empty I fill it up, I find if its there I'll drink it, but if its not it won't necessarily occur to me to get some if that makes sense?

Just starting to think about my dinner here, think I'll go put the oven on soon and aim to eat around 6

Bellenddingdong · 06/02/2017 18:25

Thank you for your help bigchoc. I have taken on board your notes re the flatulence! I will keep this in mind while at work but not too bothered at home, we are a very windy family ! I have had a good fast day and now I am only drinking chamomile tea until bedtime. There is nothing like getting a glimpse of your arse in the Next changing room mirror to keep you in the zone. I am hoping the image is printed on my brain for the rest of the week to keep me from binging!

OohMrDarcy · 06/02/2017 20:57

Successful FD completed here, am so bloody chuffed to be back in the zone finally (just a shame what it took to get me here)

Just water until bedtime now...AND I've avoided the chocolate fudge cake (3/4 left in the fride), because I can have it tomorrow if I really want it...

Tomorrow is a busy day with a working lunch, but have leftover lime chilli and ginger chicken with Singapore rice noodles to look forward to when I get home!

Well done on the FD bell, the mirrors in next are good at that aren't they!

Overtiredbackagain · 07/02/2017 08:06

Good first FD yesterday. Kitchen closed at around 600 calories which I'm pleased with. Feel much more alert today, would have been better had both my DDs let me sleep Hmm that's 5 nights now I haven't slept well with the little one.

Back to a normal WW day tomorrow and possibly FD tomorrow to get back into the swing of it.

How's everyone else today?

MazDazzle · 07/02/2017 08:39

Glad you're back in the zone MrD! It feels great, doesn't it?

Morning Overtired! Well done on your FD yesterday.

we are a very windy family made me smile Belle! Grin

Checking in for a FD here.

I last fasted on Friday and I've logged my calories on every NFD since then. (Yay me!)

The scales they are a shifting! Hip, hip, hooray.

And thanks to my new Fitbit I'm running up and down the stairs as often as I can, ditching the car in favour of walking and dancing around the kitchen each night like a loon.

ohidontknowwhattochoose · 07/02/2017 08:50

morning everyone Grin so birthday weekend was a nightmare food and drinkwise which carried on until yesterday Shock today I'm hoping for a TDEE and an FD tomorrow...

well done on the SVs and NSVs and good luck any Tuesday fasters...

Eevee77 · 07/02/2017 09:46

Hi all!
I'm no stranger to 5:2, I lost 2.5 stone back in 2015 and then sloped off and have since gained 1.5 back, mostly over the last 6 months. Jumping straight in with a fast day today and I've had one weetabix and a dribble of milk so far. Having a small portion of leftovers from last night for lunch and tonight I'm just having some cod.

InspiredinUS · 07/02/2017 12:01

Good job all you fasters! Goodluck to all fasters today.
My fast yesterday was a fail. I was feeling kinda sick and it just didn't work out. Ended up around 1200 cals. Today will be a fasting day. Looking forward to a great day!!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2017 13:48

Crikey, I couldn't get into Mumsnet today at all until now Hmm It's always the toughest site to access.

Welcome and good luck,Malmsey, Inspired Smile

Don't worry about yesterday, inspired You still managed to stay under TDEE
However it goes today, give yourself 2 NFDs before you try the next FD
If you find FDs tough at first, you could ease into them by with 1000 cals for then FDs the first week, then 900 FDs the next week etc. Some folk prefer a gradual start, whatever works.
It would just slow initial weight loss, but you'd soon catch up.

Well done, MrD You've done so well to get back on track after all the hassle you've had in rl.

Happy I start each day, FD or NFD, with a full glass of water.
I take water bottles with me, so I drink them rather than carry them full back
Evenings after training, I relax and sip from a tall fancy glass of water, ice & a slice

< waves to Windy Family Grin >

OP posts:
FleshEmoji · 07/02/2017 17:37

Checking in - I'm using 5:2 for maintenance so not trying too hard on my NFDs though at home I'll try to cook low carb and wine.

Today so far:
2 cups of coffee with milk
Crab salad
A few bites of the dog's training treats, well they are Swedish meatballs.

And dinner will be herring with beetroot salad (and potatoes swimming in butter for the non-faster).

OohMrDarcy · 07/02/2017 18:12

Evening all

Successful NFD here, under TDEE again. The working lunch turned out to be a pretty healthy (and delicious one) so I'm happy with that, and because I was so far under TDEE I allowed myself a small slice of that chocolate fudge cake and custard for dessert tonight.

Nothing but water until tomorrow now.

Decision time now though... do I use tomorrow as a FD or stick with my normal Thursday (thrown this week due to todays trip)

Overtired - well done on the FD, now to crack the sleep Wink

Maz - it most defintely does! Hope your FD has gone well?

don'tknow - write off the weekend - hopefully today has gone to plan?

Hi Eevee - welcome, this is a great resource for support!

Inspired - listen to BCF, she knows her stuff here!

oh and NSV - I've noticed my lovely clear skin is returning now I'm back glugging the water!

MalmseyWhine · 07/02/2017 18:47

Thank you for the welcome.

NFD today. Porridge for breakfast as I don't get a break at work and knew I had to go through to 4pm Had a cup of tea and a delicious cheese, beetroot and salad sandwich when I got in and enjoyed every morsel!

Dinner was stir fry, noodles and some pork which was also delicious.

Feel very full now so just water until bedtime. I don't like eating late into the evening anyway.

Eevee77 · 07/02/2017 19:08

My first fast day in months is almost over. I find this time of the evening hardest. I'm fine right now but when OH gets in from work I just want to each rubbish with him and he gets in soon. Must focus!

BigChocFrenzy · 07/02/2017 19:43

Well done on your skin NSV, MrD That's the good water habit; also fasting helps some skin conditions.

Eevee To avoid temptation of late nibbles, clean your teeth thoroughly, floss (if you do that) and gargle well with mouthwash.
It usually helps because that leaves a good clean minty taste and psychologically you don't want to dirty your teeth & mouth again

And chant our FD mantra:
"I can have it tomorrow !"
Sounds like you've all managed sensible NFDs, MrD, Flesh, Malmsey

OP posts:
Bellenddingdong · 07/02/2017 19:52

Evening all, windy reporting in ! I think I may have to change my username to something more appropriate !

With the help and encouragement from this thread, I have managed a non binge non fast day (if that makes any sense at all). The first in a long time. I am going to fast (my auto type just brought up fart instead of fast!) tomorrow while I am still in the zone.

I walked by cooplands today and I swear the iced fingers tapped on the window and smiled at me. I indigently walked passed the evil buggers and now feel quite smug that I didn't head straight in and buy 4 of them.

I am now thinking how funny it would be if we all changed he word fast to fart in this thread! I will go now! can confirm I am a fully grown adult and not a six year old child!

TheDowagerCuntess · 07/02/2017 19:56

Hi and welcome to the recent newcomers!

Very impressed with the sensible NFDs from so many of you. Brew

InspiredinUS · 08/02/2017 00:40

Ok kitchen closed for 1st fast day of the week. Did quite but 500 but in the 500 range. All my food choices were good except some potatoes chips I weighted and measures. They are my downfall and need them out of my house! Water and tea for the rest of the night. Going to bed early also. Have a good night fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2017 08:58

Morning all and good luck to the Wednesday fasters
Well done on yesterday's FD, inspired

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 08/02/2017 10:28

Morning all

Have decided to have a good NFD today and stick to my usual Thursday FD - otherwise I'm a bit worried that I'll let it slip too much over the weekend.

sounds like lots of successful NFDs and FDs going on - well dones all around!

Overtiredbackagain · 08/02/2017 10:44

I have decided to have a fart day whilst I'm in the zone Bellend! Haha

Had a good NFD following my WW points last night and feel really good - still bloody tired though! Little one decided 3.30am was late enough for me to sleep last night/this morning [shocked] I have a lunch planned with a work colleague tomorrow, so thought I'd fast today and possibly Friday, NFD the rest of the time and over the weekend, and then next week have FD Monday and Thursday and see how I get on.

Good luck to everyone on a FD

BigChocFrenzy · 08/02/2017 11:45

Happy farting fasting everyone Smile

OP posts:
Notreallyhappy · 08/02/2017 12:17

Overtired: what ww plan do you count and do you follow the maintenance allowance on nfd?... I found ww pp daily allowance (26) way too low.