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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Eatriskier · 01/04/2014 20:28

All this 5/7/10 a day business has depressed me. As someone who spent most of their life as a veggie avoider I thought I was at least getting near 3/4 a day on an average day. Now I see that my portion sizes are far too small to be a full portion! So maybe I get 2 a day in. All that hard work, all that pride I had. Angry

MazzleDazzle · 01/04/2014 20:33

80g? That's half a big bag of spinach! Only one portion! Salad leaves are the same.

EagleRay · 01/04/2014 21:46

Evening all - FD no 11 (I think) completed and today, 46 days in, I've lost 10lbs! Grin

Holiday is now booked - off on a crazy bus/boat trip through the tropics, and leaving in just over 2 weeks!! I know it's a holiday but I'm thinking I want to stick to doing FDs while I'm away as I've got a good routine now and would be beside myself if I gained weight on holiday. Any thoughts/suggestions? Won't be able to track food easily but am reasonably good at hazarding a guess at calories now.

Breadandwine · 01/04/2014 21:49

The problem with many people's perception of vegetables - which was certainly mine before I became a veggie - is that they are seen solely as an accompaniment to meat in a main course. The 'meat and two veg' syndrome, this could be called.

Now I've been veggie for 12 years and a vegan for 8, my views are diametrically opposite. So much so, that now, instead of thinking 'chicken curry', which was a staple at chez B&W's for many years, I'm now thinking, 'cabbage curry' - and making cabbage the centre of the dish. You all might think this is bonkers, but I absolutely relish the taste of a chunk of cabbage stalk (I'm talking of the 'rib' down the centre of a cabbage leaf) when I come across it in my veg curries.

I've just posted a chilli non carne - made with chick peas - recipe on the Fast Day Recipe thread, and I have to tell you folks, it ranks up there with any chilli or curry recipe I made in my pre vegan days. (For dinner tonight, I've just had a bowl of the leftovers…swoon!!!) Grin

Veggies are seriously undervalued!

EagleRay · 01/04/2014 21:53

In other news, I've lost practically zilch in terms of inches off my body in the last two weeks, yet my weight loss is noticeable to people. What's all that about? Have I just lost 10lb off my face? Hmm

EagleRay · 01/04/2014 21:56

Don't get me started on the meat fixation Breadandwine! I'm veggie and cook some really nice meals, but DP will only eat them if he can add meat - often he will go for some quality stuff, eg Ikea meatballs or those roast chicken bits in a bag that Morrisons sell off for 9p at 8.45pm. Bleurgh.

I get really annoyed as it feels like he's wasting the nice food I've cooked, but he genuinely believes he will keel over and fade away if he can't eat meat all the bloody time Hmm

I will have a look at the chilli non carne - sounds great!

Helliecopter · 01/04/2014 22:06

lol! Good work Shelley

Helliecopter · 01/04/2014 22:11

Haha! Sorry. Replied to a way old post without scrolling to the end. Idiot. Brain isn't working today.

How many calories do you think I should allow for a home made lasagne, made by someone else, not me. Should I assume the worst - full fat everything? Wasn't a huge piece - size of an average ready meal portion maybe.

Eatriskier · 01/04/2014 22:13

I'm a massive meat eater, I had to be because I was so fussy I'd have lived on potatoes only otherwise. But I try so hard nowadays as I don't want my kids to learn this from me! But yes, I still see veggies as an accompaniment. Do I get kudos for at least adding them now though Wink?

My family have lived on a stuffing recipe passed down by my grandad for years, but as its a stuffing its very bread heaving so uber carby. I decided that if he can create his own stuffing then as his granddaughter so could I. So we now have a new butternut squash based one going on here (with chilli and chorizo - sorry still meaty). They way I saw it when experimenting was if it didn't work at least there were some more veggies on the plate! But it was wonderful and will now be the staple recipe I think.

TalkinPeace · 01/04/2014 22:27

I could never go veggie or vegan
but am making active efforts

  • to eat more VEGETABLES
  • to cut right back on FRUIT JUICE (was daily, now just weekends)
  • to have crunch fruit like apples rather than quick sugars like grapes and bananas

meat wise we are trying to do fish at least once a week
white meat twice and cut down on the salted meats (a bit)

but I'm lucky to have a fantastic independent butcher so I have no ethical issues with the meat I buy

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2014 22:44

The study I have been on has a portion of most veg as 80g....

Weight that out in peas ... I know they put 80g on the packaging but they obviously want you to eat more of them. The advice given re children is that a portion is a 'handful' - ie scaled to the size of the eater. I've got small hands... .... ok, all this veg talk has me rabbitting Grin

Still - by happy chance tonight I had a nice bowlful of leftover roasted med veg which Betsy's dins inspired me to add some chickpeas to, plus lots of basil - half a mozzarella ball on top then breadcrumbed wholemeal with grated parmesan and a dash of smoked paprika for luck, crisped up nicely.

DorisAllTheDay · 01/04/2014 22:57

Eagle, your holiday sounds wonderful. I have no idea how to carry on IF-ing on holiday but I'm sure one of the more experienced folks will be along soon with wise words.

I was thinking more about this correlation between copious veg consumption and living longer. I was also wondering whether there's a further correlation between eating loads of veg, and not eating very much sugary rubbish. I know that when I'm in carb overload I hardly eat veg at all, but when I'm going low to medium carb I bulk up on vegetables. So could the causal element of the health benefits here be as much about not eating high-carb junk as about eating 7-10 portions of vegetables? Also, I was musing about the low-fat and artificial sugar industries which basically thrive on trying to find ways people can eat more. It's ironic that most of us (I definitely include myself here) have no trouble eating enough food, but we struggle to keep our calorie intake low enough for health while struggling to eat enough vegetables and fruit. Funny thing, people.

Successful FD here. I'm not completely sure of my calorie intake because I had unlimited milk for tea, but definitely somewhere in the low 400s with an absolute maximum of 450 (though I don't think it's as much as that). Time for bed before I can eat anything else!

LakeFlyPie · 01/04/2014 22:58

Near successful FD Hmm

Tea, water, coffee only until delayed train at 1730 when I succumbed to a (skimmed) flat white at station.
By dinner time I was starving and had a larger than planned portion of lasagne and salad. Went out to theatre, nipped into pub on way home and had half a pale ale (!) and another small portion of lasagne on my return.
Still not much idea of calorie contents but suspect that lot must be closer to 1000 (if not more) than 500.

On a positive note, must be better than a day when I would have had bfast, lunch and then all of the above.

Next FD planned for thursday when I'll try and be a bit more controlled.

Think I would have managed 7-10 a day of fruit and veg prior to my 5:2 attempt but I find the general volume of food I'm eating is so much less generally. Obviously less on FDs but also on NFDs I think.
Suppose I need to make a conscious effort up the intake on the NFDs.

Breadandwine · 01/04/2014 23:31

Eat, I think that's certainly the way to go - adding more veg to bulk something out a bit.

That's pretty much the way I drifted into it - instead of 500g of mince in a spag bol, use 250g and increase the veg. It still tasted great, yet we were saving money.

I've now pretty much done the same with veggie mince - I've cut that down so that the last time I used it I made enough spag bol for 2 days with only 100g of veggie mince. Now I've got a bag of veggie mince in the freezer for months and I've no desire to use it.

So, in my case, eventually, it becomes possible to give up the mince entirely.

That might be the way to go for the omnivores amongst us - Morrison's mince I found was very acceptable. I bought a bag of Sainsbury's v/mince which I've yet to try out.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 23:50

^^
Phew, this thread is still gabbing away at warp-speed
So, before I toddle to bed, I'll just whisper this:

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

ALERT: we have a new Thread42

Please fill up this old thread first

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

tiggermummy70 · 01/04/2014 23:55

peas will never be an issue cannot stand them!!!
sweetcorn on the other hand........

I'm going to have a go at making cauli rice tomorrow- any tips?
if this goes ok may attempt the cauli pizza next week...

ErrolTheDragon · 02/04/2014 00:12

Lakefly - I think if you're eating less then what matters is not so much the absolute quantity of veg as the proportion. As to today, well, you'll have had a decent length fast before you got home anyway so that's all to the good.

Doris - well done! Remember to drink tea instead of raiding sainsbos on NFDs too.

DontBeBlueBeARainbow · 02/04/2014 08:06

Wednesday FD is always more challenging than Monday, so checking in to see who's with me today? Grin

The plan is: water and teas, 1 coffee this morning, veg soup for lunch, fennel gratin for tea, then an orange and liquorice tea to end the day, leaving 100cals to play with. As long as I can stay on track!

Good luck all other FDers and enjoy NFDers x

MelanieCheeks · 02/04/2014 08:06

I think it's easy to get bogged down the minutiae of whether is the number precisely 7 portions, or measuring 80g. The overall message is - the more veg and fruit you eat, the better. So Eatriskier, don't be depressed. You've been taking great steps in the right direction, and that's all had a positive effect on your health.

Southeastdweller · 02/04/2014 08:15

Eagle Try to be relaxed on your holiday and be sure in the fact that if you do put on weight you can lose it easily when you come back. But it might be an idea not to snack, reduce refined carb intake and squeeze in some exercise whilst you're there. Have a lovely time Smile

Overtiredmum · 02/04/2014 08:21

I'm with you today Don'tbeblue! Second FD of the week and hoping it will be an easy one because I have a manic day ahead. I have tonnes of work ahead this morning, then leaving work at 3 for the commute back for parents evening for my two with STBXH.

Not looking forward to it really, am worried they will say kids aren't doing so great after my separation from their dad, even though they seem to be doing great, I guess I'm just over thinking it?

Anyway I will only have tea, coffee and water today, always save my 500 for dinner, which today is bang on, so it will only be a virgin gin and slimline tonic for ms today - unless kids have done exceptionally well, then a small celebratory one could be squeezed in Grin

Having a third FD Friday, am going away for a few days next week to Scotland, can't wait!

Southeastdweller · 02/04/2014 08:24

I agree that veggies are undervalued, even still generally seen as boring, which of course is a fallacy. The fixation in Britain with having to have meat every day or almost every day seems as strong today as it was when I was a child in the 80's.

Well, time to get off my soapbox and go to work! Have a good day all.

BetsyBell · 02/04/2014 08:27

Rather than worrying about measuring out portions just look at the proportions of the food on your plate - if it is at least half veg (ideally more like 2/3rds or 3/4) then that's great. My aim has been to reduce most of the carb and replace with veg. So if I have something like spag bol then I will cover my plate in salad and veg, put the bol on that and sprinkle a few bits of pasta on like a parsley garnish!

It works on a fast day too as much veg is pretty low calorie so you can eat masses of it compared to a slice of bread or whatever.

A nice NFD day meal I had the other day:

Big flat mushroom stuffed with chopped fresh herbs (parsley, sage, thyme), lots of garlic and chopped up chorizo (feta would work well too), roasted up with slices of courgette and small cubes of butternut squash, served up with some salad as well. With less olive oil it would have worked well as a FD dish I think.

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 02/04/2014 08:30

SED So true!

The main thing is - most veg does not need to be boiled! There are always more interesting ways to cook. I've got lots of ideas if anyone needs help with their boring veg! Tell me what you've got and I'll think of an interesting way for you to prepare it Grin

OP posts:
Megrim · 02/04/2014 09:09

FD here today too. House is full of ill people, which is a bummer as DS1 and I are off to Glasgae tomorrow for big swim meet (it's the Commonwealth Games trial, not a contender but it's always good to swim well and chip away at times at these things). I've sent him back to bed after hot lemon and honey, he had the flu jab last autumn so I'm hoping that will ward off the worst of it. DH has full on man flu and has taken to his bed for the last two days.