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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
TwittyMcTwitterson · 01/04/2014 08:58

Yes mazzle. An utter waste of my time so I have booked a weekend away in hemsby for Easter. Never been before so could be fun. Not seen a big portion of our incredibly small family since Christmas but I'm doing what everyone else does... Thinking of myself Grin

I do feel bad that mil won't see DD at Easter tho. She's always, from day one, been the most excited one about DD. My mum was at first but as described earlier. It isn't consistent. Hmm

Family! Confused

Helliecopter · 01/04/2014 09:16

Morning! Still on my phone and without home broadband. Hoping to go somewhere to abuse the free wifi later.

Congrats Betsy that's ace! You're at about where I want to be too. That magic 9st7 is where I want to get back to - that's where I'd just got and maintained for about 2 months before falling preg with DD1. Way to go yet but feeling positive about it.

I've a gig today with my sax quartet so my mum is coming to look after DD2. Also means I won't have time to obsess over food too much as I usually do on the NFD after a FD! I'm really having to force myself to remember that just because I can have it doesn't mean I have to have it Blush
A little sv this morning - a good post FD WI result of 171 so that's 11lbs off in total now (after my 11th FD and the start of my 6th week doing 5:2). I didn't hold back on Mothering Sunday but we were quite active too and taking a picnic lunch definitely helped as I'm sure if we'd had a pub lunch I wouldn't have had such a good result today.

Have a strong, successful day today everyone, whether it's FD or NFD.

DorisAllTheDay · 01/04/2014 09:21

Congratulations on your lovely SV, Betsy.

FD here and I'm hungry already. But I made it to work successfully without stopping off at Sainsbury's for a croissant and some bagels and a pack of their choc chip cookies. The strategy of the tenner locked in the envelope for emergencies only definitely helps. I've had two cups of tea already, and I have a feeling I'm going to exceed my FD milk-for-tea allowance but I think it's a price worth paying if it calms the monster down. Good luck other Tuesday fasters.

DorisAllTheDay · 01/04/2014 09:22

Cross post with Hellie. Glad to hear about your SV, and I hope you have a wonderful time with your sax quartet - sounds like fun.

Miffytastic · 01/04/2014 09:50

Betsy that's brilliant. I remember our targets being the same last year,and you've only bloomin done it* WELL DONE!!

*where as I hit over 11 in January :-( but had a good FD yesterday and I'm heading in the right direction again....

Souper · 01/04/2014 10:47

Wow this thread moves fast!

Ruthemmaherself - glad fasting is working for you with BF. Any bit of news like that is reassuring for me, just starting out.

Not2bObvious - I am definitely in the zone today - I will explain why in a minute!

BreadandWine - yy to the euphoric feeling of fasting. I totally get that.

MazzleDazzle - thank you for the welcome, and baby is gorgeous!

BetsyBell - huge congratulations on your lowest weight!

I bloody love this WOE. I couldn't wait to get back to it after the pregnancy. I reckon I gained about 10kg during the pregnancy, and i was about 10kg above my ideal weight at the time of conception. But I got on the scales this morning after my fast yesterday and have dropped 1kg just like that. I know it is water weight but such a boost to the motivation!

The fast yesterday went fine. I had 700 calories as recommended for BF mums and felt fine. No discernible difference to milk supply so far.

By the way, can anyone remember a poem that was posted by someone way way back on one of the early 5:2 threads about fasting - it was about fasting being your friend and your ally during a war.... I think! Anyone?!

Souper · 01/04/2014 10:49

Oh, I've managed to find the poem with a very cursory google. It is by Rumi. I found it very true.

There’s hidden sweetness in the stomach’s emptiness.
We are lutes, no more, no less. If the soundbox
is stuffed full of anything, no music.
If the brain and belly are burning clean
with fasting, every moment a new song comes out of the fire.
The fog clears, and new energy makes you
run up the steps in front of you.

When you fast, good habits gather like friends who want to help.
Fasting is Solomon’s ring. Don’t give it
to some illusion and lose your power,
but even if you have, if you’ve lost all will and control,
they come back when you fast, like soldiers appearing
out of the ground, pennants flying above them.
A table descends to your tents, spread with other food,
better than the broth of cabbages.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2014 10:56

Doris - yy to the milk - when I started 5:2 tea with milk was my stomach-calmer. I can manage with a lot less now though and keep it within the limit.

BetsyBell · 01/04/2014 11:05

I like that souper!

Thank you all, you are lovely :)

miffy - you'll get there!

Hellie Sounds fun - enjoy it!

Doris Great willpower, well done :)

OP posts:
zedzedzed · 01/04/2014 11:11

Hiya souper feckin LOVE that poem so thanks for that and congrats on the babe and on getting back to this woe so fast.

NFD going well here after the calorie bomb filled celebratory weekend (again), and despite having a jar of 'Lotus' spread in my cupboard (my latest dastardly sabotage-your-life discovery, made from puréed Lotus caramel biscuits...AMAZING with everything but especially savouries like crispy bacon).

Boy still poxy (20 kids in his nursery have it, we're like a ghost village here, white crosses on the doors of the afflicted, people comparing symptoms on street corners, looking shiftily over shoulders as newly infected families whizz by, sad siblings waving from car windows, harassed and guilty-looking Mums bombing up the back streets with pus-covered leper-looking babies in buggies...'Don't touch my child old lady...we have PLAGUE!'

No sign of it on the baby, despite my rubbing her on The Boy twice a day and having them share yoghurts, oh well.

Hope you cope 'Mazzle' that's hardcore...I'm thinking of sticking a Friday minifast in this week too (all cals at dinner) to (partly) atone for my rum, cheese, duck, cheesecake, more rum, more cheese and lots of Lotus and bacon debauched weekend. It's been a lax fortnight really and I must get back to my mindful weeks and careful weekends so I'll be losing not just not gaining!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 11:14

Brilliant, Betsy, really interesting that you drop after so many months maintenance.

In geek mode, I wonder:

  • Is it the TaKwondo ramping up ypur exercise ?
  • Or after losing and then maintaining so long, is your metabolism back to what it was pre-DCs ?

Overtired Lovely that people already notice you are slimmer

Well done finding the poem, Souper, it's new to most of us.

EveesMum I'm sure you'll have a lovely Easter break. Your family obviously don't value you properly, so blow 'em.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 11:17

Miffy You're on your way and you'll reach that goal

Doris Well done for junk dodging. I'm glad the envelope idea is working.

Good luck to any FDers

BetsyBell · 01/04/2014 11:38

bigchoc Exercise levels were at the higher end of normal for me this week. Looking at my own geek stats, last time I dropped weight was after a very intense TKD week.

I am slimmer now than I ever was pre-dc, aside from periods of protracted illness - digestive-realted. My nutritional intake is substantially better than it ever has been and my exercise levels are more consistent and intensive than they ever were. I believe my metabolism is better than it was pre-dc; I am certainly healthier.

I've been happy to maintain, but it's interesting to drop too - especially as I believe I am becoming more muscular - which would account for improved metabolism - hungry muscles burn more fuel.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2014 12:16

My Fast Exercise has just arrived from Amazon - together with a T-shirt for DD which I want to nick - Yoda 'Calm you shall be and Carry on you Must'

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 12:25

Errol Can you link to that Amazon T-shirt, please ? Great motto.
Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2014 12:37

This one.

She needed a few new ones, so she's also getting Keep Calm and Exterminate and Keep Khan and Klingon.

Maybe I should get a Keep Calm and Carry on Buying T-shirts one... (if that isn't a Thing it should be)

CiderwithBuda · 01/04/2014 12:40

Hi all. Really struggling with getting back to it. Didn't manage a mini fast yesterday. Had crap and wine. And broke a tooth chomping on some wasabi peas.

Planned a fast today but had a rubbish night - DS had a migraine so I have been awake since 1am other than about an hour dozing.

Have just had a sandwich and three chocolate biscuits.

I suppose I can rescue today if I don't eat anything else although am not sure I will manage.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 12:47

Thx, Errol. Maybe the Keep Calm and Mummy On would suit some here.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 12:55

Cider Sorry to hear about your tooth. Ouch.
Lnck of sleep always makes an FD really hard.

Why not aim for a healthy sub-TDEE today, no more treats.
So now you can make your calorie-counted meal plan for a proper Wednesday FD.
And try to have an early night, you and DS.

The safest rule for FDs is: no food treats
They mess up your blood sugar and your will-power.

runningLou · 01/04/2014 13:30

Does it matter about eating up to TDEE on NFDs? Or is that like a maximum and you can be way under? I tend to be quite a bit under - probably 1200-1500 cals per day on NFDs - but then I have struggled with weekend binges and I wondered if those would be more controllable if I increased cals on NFDs?? But then I want to lose weight as quick as possible ...

womblesofwestminster · 01/04/2014 13:31

You should aim for 1/4 of your TDEE otherwise you will lose muscle mass NOT fat

Not any fat? Confused How come?

DorisAllTheDay · 01/04/2014 13:52

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

I came on to whinge about how hungry I am. And then I read Souper's lovely poem and realised the depth of my FD food obsession when I read it like this, and didn't even notice the mistake till I was halfway through the following post:

like soldiers appearing
out of the ground, peanuts flying above them

I was busily imagining a line of soldiers ducking from the dry roast before I stopped to think I might have got it just a teensy bit wrong.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 14:02

Wombles Read Varady's book, since you are doing ADF.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.
BigChocFrenzy · 01/04/2014 14:05

and this study

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.
The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.
MelanieCheeks · 01/04/2014 14:06

Just popping in quickly to thank ZZZ for the sticky duck recipe, which I devoured last night!