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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 22:17

Smile Wow, many folk with great NSVs today:

Not2b 3.5" from your waist is wonderful. And putting away your scales should reduce anxiety.

After the T-shirts cheered you up, Doris, it's time for some shopping. Only cheap ones though, because you'll soon need even smaller ones.

Always a good sign when the trousers start to fall down, Megrim

Well done to Zed, Octopus, Doris, Badger, Chocupid, Lou, Cider and all other FDers. An early night and then have it tomorrow Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 22:22

Zed No, MrsF is the only Scando here, I think.
I love eating Bambi venison and at the moment I have a craze for red cabbage with apple or cranberries - I've had it most days the last 2 weeks

Ruthemmaherself · 24/03/2014 23:16

Thanks for the welcome, really helps to know other people are doing the same thing.

So, first fast day is over and I managed to do it! I found a great soup for dinner and just really looking forward to breakfast tomorrow...

Peplum - thanks for the advice re: not cutting down too low on fast days when bf.

Metella - I am so impressed that you started when your DD was only 8 weeks old! I'm only just about ready to start and mine is six months now. Great to know your bf hasn't been affected. My DD fed really well today and she didn't seem to notice anything so that's a relief!

Breadandwine · 25/03/2014 00:57

Good news, Betsy - what a star! Flowers

Could have been me mentioning the pizza, I've had a calorie counted recipe on the 5:2 recipe thread for a while, now. And very good it is, too! Smile

At 910 cals for the whole pizza, 304c for 1/3rd and 228c for a quarter, you can incorporate it into either a non-fasting day or indeed, into a fasting day!

It's about halfway down the thread - Jan 2013. And I've just realised I should have a pizza with a vegan topping on that thread!

B&W can I ask do you use any forums or threads on here regarding veganism. I LOVE recipes blogs, etc but would love a bit more discussion sometimes, to keep the motivation up. I watched the link you posted a week or so back, it was really good, thanks.

Did you mean the Twitter link, Rainbow? There's a #veganchat conversation between vegans for an hour every Tuesday evening between 7 and 8pm - #veganhour. Lots of great links and ideas on there.

And there's been a vegan thread here which occasionally splutters into life. I should post on it more often, myself.

Breadandwine · 25/03/2014 01:01

Here's the link to the Twitter feed.

Labracadabra · 25/03/2014 06:45

NSV for me yesterday!! I wore some knee high boots that have always been hard to zip up and they zipped up easily with room to spare! This is
a big deal for me as, despite being small framed I have inordinately large calvesShock and can rarely wear boots, wellies etc unless they're wide calf fitting (these boots aren't). I had long given up on being able to slim my calves down (I have been a rider for years and think that might have something to do with it, but some of it is clearly just fat!)

Chocupid · 25/03/2014 08:07

labracadabra I'm the same re large calves and boots. Even though small frame and waist.
Mine slimmed down enough last year (when I got to goal) to wear boots but it was still summer tut!
Nice feeling though isn't it?

I'm attacking my regain weight of nearly a stone at the moment (after stopping 5:2) to get that back and I'm definitely going to buy some lovely sexy boots next winter.

Maybe that for us instead of waist measurement will keep us in check or at goal Smile

Hugs betsy hope your DS is ok today, kids are soo brave sometimes.

Doris wow you have really turned it around I'm very impressed! coming in on a FD well under 500 (unheard of for me)
I bet if you re read your posts from the other week you wouldn't recognise yourself!

zedzedzed · 25/03/2014 08:24

I knew I'd have to have Vogel toast with butter and Marmite this morning. Totally yummy and worth every calorie. Sadly it will inevitably lead to a day of ravenousness as all breakfast does for me. Oh well.

Lots to do today, but I should manage to keep any frenzy at bay if I stay really busy.

Sticky duck for dinner, the thought of that will keep me going and keep me saving up enough over the day for a really nice dinner...so lunch will be a salad of sorts, maybe with a poached egg and a slice of burnt bacon crumbled on top.

Happy, healthy munching NFD-ers, hope all those on the fast Train have a smooth journey with hardly any leaves on the line.

Not2bObvious · 25/03/2014 08:32

FD today, that's all...well Jel of non fd'ers

Overtiredmum · 25/03/2014 08:36

FD for me today Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2014 08:37

Well done on your 1st FD, RuthEmma. Excellent start.

Morale-boosting NSV with the sexy boots, Labracadabra

Good luck to any FDers today.
Smile

BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 08:37

DS doing brilliantly. I slept like the dead last night while DH woke every 2 hours to check on the patient :)

So, fasting today. After the big, stodgy blowout last night I'm definitely feeling the need! Got lentil and butternut squash soup planned for us all later. I've realised we've been eating a lot of meat recently so am planning to get fast days back to being more vege-based as they always used to be. I blame the fast-day friendly venison meatballs Sainsbo's have been doing recently!

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 08:40

zed one of my all time favourite nfd breakfasts is vogel toast with butter, marmite, avocado, tomato slices, lashings of pepper and a squeeze of lemon juice. VERY satisfying and does not leave you wanting to nibble.

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 08:44

I've realised that I like eating complicated food - I enjoy the the process of putting together lots of ingredients, ideally if it's only for me though! Maybe it makes up for the disgustingly short amount of time it takes me to eat though Blush Grin

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 25/03/2014 08:58

I'm of the muscly calf variety too - clearly some of it was fat as I'm now able to fit into boots better too! Definitely no loss of muscle either as my taekwondo kicks are pretty badass Grin.

Apologies for the barrage of posts - I had 10 hours of sleep last night but still feel groggy... can't seem to get going at all. Tapping on here is easier than getting on with stuff!

OP posts:
Helliecopter · 25/03/2014 09:08

I know what you mean Betsy I love putting together something complicated - a big salad with loads of little interesting bits in it, or the stuffed aubergine thingy I do on FDs. Masses of ingredients and leave my mouth happy and brain tricked into thinking I've eaten lots because of the variety. Not often I get the time to do complicated food though!
Good to hear your DS is doing well.

Labracadabra I am SO with you on the boots/calves thing. Mine are massive, square things, inherited from my dad (mum's got great legs, damn it!) and even when I was about 9 ½ stone I still couldn't get 'normal' high street boots to fit. If I ever did I used to get terribly over-excited and buy them, no matter how much they cost!

NFD for me today. Yesterday went well. Successfully negotiated the free buffet at my gig, even turning down Bakewell tart, which is one of my favourite puds ever. Scales aren't showing any movement this morning but that's fine. I know AF is due and I had a bit of an indulgent weekend. Well, I say indulgent, what I mean is that I was a bit more relaxed about eating up to my TDEE. We'll see if that affects my loss over the next week or so once AF has done her thing. This is only my second one since DD2 (she's 9 months now) so i think my body will still be adjusting to those hormones again. If only BF stopped periods permanently - I think I'd be one of those women who feeds her teenage children Shock Wink

Happy FD all fasters Grin

Peplum41 · 25/03/2014 09:35

Morning betsy, post away! I'm sure you're relieved, nice to have you with us.

I've always fancied that vogel bread/marmite/avacodo/tomato power breakfast but never seem to have all the ingredients in at once. I'm dining on visceral fat this morning as doing a 16:8 thing to make up for yesterdays FD turning into a 16:8.

Wireless went weird last night, meant to say well done on the successful FD doris, great nsv on the tshirt. Did you see that thread on what we wore in 1994? Its a great diversion if you need one(from that head hunger thing).

Congrats on the lost inches megrim and not2

Megrim · 25/03/2014 09:39

For pizza lovers, if you have a bread maker you can make your own pizza base using whole meal flour so that it keeps the white carb monster under wraps. For Bambi venison lovers, Tesco's does a good venison stew pack with a marinade, great bulked out with lots of root veggies.

labracadabra I was a rider too (and a cyclist) so I also have big calves and thighs, but I still also have the good core muscles, just need to continue toning them up now.

Betsy great news about DS.

MelanieCheeks · 25/03/2014 09:44

Zedzedzed, how do you make your sticky duck? DH is away this weekend, so I'm aiming to clear out some of the items in the freezer which he's not keen on. I KNOW there's some duck breasts in there!

Another one with what I call "dancers calves" here. I did treat myself to a pair of Duo boots some years back - of course, now they look like baggy wellies on me!

I love avocado, but its so hard to find one at just the right stage of ripeness.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/03/2014 11:10

Morning all. Yesterdays FD went per plan; this morning usual FD+1 lack of want for brekkie - lots of tea and almond milk mocha.

Talking of pizza I keep meaning to try the cauliflower-base alternative, IIRC its on the recipes thread - maybe those of you with carb monsters might find that worked for you?

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2014 11:38

Betsy Of course, post as much as you like. You have a lot of pent-up stress to release. Your DS will have a much happier time now.

btw Your DH sounds a sweetie, taking the night shift so you could zonk.

Caging the Carb Monster
I schedule a weekly treat, so I don't think about white or sweet junk the rest of the time.

For me, if the carb monster awakens any other time, that means I haven't had enough healthy starches.

I find rice, quinoa, baked or boiled spuds all very satiating (but NOT baked wedges, too moreish). A small baked spud with salmon or steak and 8+ veg portions is my usual lunch.
After this, the junk monster doesn't wake up, so just fruit & nut butter / cream for pud is fine.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2014 11:41

My other tricks: 10 mins brisk walk after lunch.
Always clean teeth after the meal.

cuggles · 25/03/2014 11:50

So after two initial weeks of good FDs and rubbish NFDs I have finally woken up positive I can do the NFDs propely now. FD yesterday went fine and today (NFD) been for a run/walk on blustery and rainy seafront and entered breakfast into MFP! Good start but just got to continue. Had a snack of ten almonds when wanted a twirl! Big calf issues here too despite being a small frame..I blame my gymnastic-ing childhood! My friend gets cross because many knee highs are like baggy wellies on her..i look on whistfully! (Still we all have our cross to bear!). Good luck all FDs today!

ErrolTheDragon · 25/03/2014 12:53

All this talk about boots made me curious - I just tried on the wellies I'd passed on to DD because they were really tight if I tried to tuck my jeans in. Today - no problem! I've been intending to get myself some more for ages, thought I'd have to look for wide calf but looks like not! Grin

Still don't really feel hungry.

CiderwithBuda · 25/03/2014 14:36

Hello chatterers!

Betsy - glad yesterday went well.

My FD yesterday wasn't really a FD! But it would be around 800 cals so in still counting it as one. I stayed in control and after the carby weekend I had I was happy with that.

NFD today and going well so far.

Off out to help DH in the garden in a little while.