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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 41: Springing into March or marching into spring? Either way, more sunshine means easier fast days! Come and join us in getting healthier, the fast way.

999 replies

BetsyBell · 15/03/2014 11:04

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day.

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : breadandwine’s resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5lbs reduction in body weight and a 4cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant. It also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

If you’ve been researching IF you may have come across this article which is highly negative about women with BMI in the normal range. Here’s our response to that:

  • With a healthy BMI, those who want to be leaner will usually find weight and waist loss to be much slower than for overweight folk, since, less fat and inches are available to lose.
  • The women with healthy BMIs already had healthier blood sugar than the men in the study. Hence nothing really needed improving.
  • Women who have had health problems on IF were NOT doing 5:2, but the
much tougher ADF or 16:8, ^combined with heavy lifting (often multiples of body weight) AND were often starting from already ultra-low BF 12-16% range.^

-Many were already missing periods or had EDs before IF, due to the low BF %, over-training and over-stressing.

5:2 is a gentler form of IF than ADF or Leangains and there’s plenty of anecdotal evidence from longterm 5:2ers, now with healthy BMI, who are continuing to have very positive results and experiences on this WOE.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: no limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: no rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, have EDs, any illness, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • Check with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate).
  • BREASTFEEDERS: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually. You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • SLEEP: everybody needs enough sleep, or weight loss may be slowed.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
MetellaEstMater · 24/03/2014 17:20

Sending lots of get well vibes to Betsy's DS!

Welcome Ruthemma, I have a 12 week old who I am breastfeeding. I've been following 5:2 for four weeks now. No problems so far. I aim between 750 & 1000 calories depending on how tired I am and whether DD is demanding more milk. She's a boob monster today so it's 1000 cals.

Blondieminx · 24/03/2014 17:22

zed ohhh yes. Drooling just at the description tbh Grin

I am ravenous and it's TOTM - but I will stay strong till dinner! we can have it all tomorrow!

Blondieminx · 24/03/2014 17:25

Betsy I hope your DS has a speedy recuperation from his op

BetsyBell · 24/03/2014 18:10

All is well! Already on way home thanks to clever DS being brave enough for a local anaesthetic. Home via takeaway. We'll fast another day... Smile

OP posts:
BetsyBell · 24/03/2014 18:11

Not looking forward to the local wearing off though.... Calpol at the ready!

OP posts:
IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 24/03/2014 18:46

Thats brilliant to hear Betsy well done to your Cleveland brave DS! And you too,.enjoy your takeaway!

MetellaEstMater · 24/03/2014 18:59

Great to hear Betsy. Enjoy the takeaway!

BetsyBell · 24/03/2014 19:02

Thanks to you all for your loveliness and kind thoughts Flowers

Takeaway eaten with gusto and now I'm ready for bed!!!

OP posts:
Octopus37 · 24/03/2014 19:15

Just had soup again, about to dish up some leftover fruit crumble for DS, starving but like you say we can eat tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 19:18

So glad to hear your good news, Betsy. What a brave DS you have.
Flowers to you both.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/03/2014 19:29

Just to torture the FDers: Grin

Southeastdweller · 24/03/2014 19:39

Doris I think I know what you mean about what you said earlier at 12.28. I see this as 'head hunger', distinct from real hunger and in my case usually triggered by boredom and sadness. I've learnt to distract myself with other things as well as 'rewriting the internal script' (remember those posts we wrote about this on Feb 21st?). Having a hot drink to hold onto that lasts ages also helps.

Not2bObvious · 24/03/2014 19:57

Cider never take a Monday weigh in as indication of how you've done, you're v likely carrying the weekend with you if you, ahem, get my drift. Only WI's after 2nd/3rd fd's count (first thing, naked, post-peeGrin)
Zed, white toast is my crack coke. 1 good buttery slice leads to 2 3,4 but what the hey, by the time you get back near a scales, it'll be a distance memory. As long as you enjoyed your birthday treats, no guilt/no shame as there's no need with this WOL.
Betsy I searched Google images to see your sons problem, I hope every goes great today, no doubt you'll be delighted when it's all sorted Flowers
Well, I did it, I hid my scales! Ok, not proper hid but well out of sight & mind. I also managed to check my waist measurement. Around 11 months ago, I had a body composition thing done and since then I've lost nearly 3.5 inches from my waist!!! I'm delighted to see the proof. Decided to do my kinda 4:3 this week, fast Tuesday/Thursday/mini fast Saturday. Really getting back on track with my exercise, 2 x JM's, 2 x runs, and 1 treadmill run/walk - all since Friday. Blooming knackered now!!! Hope you're all having a nice Monday evening post FD. I'm going to have half thin crust pizza for my FD meal, too easy and under 400 cals, yummy

Peplum41 · 24/03/2014 20:02

Phew betsy, bet you're glad today is over, what a brave lad! Takeaway well deserved.

southeast did you ever used to get head hunger on that scale, and have you now rewritten your script, so no longer do this? Very interesting.

eagle my word, we have the same mother. Loverly ain't she?! We also have the same sister, bizarrely, well mine is spoilt and moody. Grr

I've moved the goal post of todays fast, its now been down graded to a mini fast due to impending totm and general feeling of ropiness. Never mind, can still do wed and Fri properly.

IPokedABadgerWithASpoon · 24/03/2014 20:08

Not2 you are a genius! Id have never of thought of still having pizza on a FD, I could have half a pizza with salad then a hot chocolate and yoghurt and still come in around 500! Grin

Not2bObvious · 24/03/2014 20:56

Can't take credit for the pizza idea IPoked, I vaguely remembered someone saying it a while ago. And since I've now moved on from having lunch & dinner to just having dinner, so I'd more cals to play with, pizza popped into my head. And it really does fill you up quite nicely and it appeals (and ready in around 20-30 mins even heating the oven!) I can make peace with myself at the rough points of the day reminding myself of hot crispy pizzaGrin

DorisAllTheDay · 24/03/2014 21:08

Hello and welcome, RuthEmma. I'm glad to see you, Annie, but sorry to hear about your sore throat and general feeling crapness. I hope you took good care of yourself and didn't worry too much about fasting. Time to begin properly when you're feeling hale and hearty.

Yay Betsy! I'm so pleased it's good news. That takeaway was well deserved if ever a takeaway was.

Zed, did you make it? I love Vogel soya and linseed bread, but I try to stick to their oat and wholemeal as I think it has fewer additives. At least as far as I can tell. I'm full of admiration for you guys with LOs who have to make yummy toddler snacks and then resist them.

Southeast what you said about head hunger sort of makes sense to me, in that it starts in the head for me, but if I don't rewrite the script in time it becomes intensely physical and that's when it gets beyond me to control. If I can stop it getting that far, I've got a chance, but the last few weeks it got on top of me. I don't think it's emotional eating any more, though it might have been when I was in my teens and 20s. I think it's now more like deeply, deeply ingrained physiological and psychological habits, plus probably something hormonal (no scientific knowledge here, but based on what it physically feels like).

Wow, Not2Be, 3.5 inches off your waist, that's some result! And it sounds like you're truly in the zone with eating and exercise. You rock! I too have hidden the scales, and without doing a final check. No more obsessing over numbers for me.

I just had a heartening experience. I've been giving myself a hard time for going up a clothes size over the past few weeks. OK, let me take you back in time. In the 1990s I liked to wear hippy-style cotton trousers with plain brightly-coloured T-shirts. All very baggy and grunge! By the mid-90s I'd moved on from the hippy trousers but I still wore the T-shirts until a spurt of putting on weight towards the end of the decade made them too tight for me - they were mostly size 16s and 18s. I didn't have the heart to throw them out, but put them away for the day when I lost enough weight to wear them again. I'm going away later this week for a residential music weekend, and I suddenly thought it would be the sort of place where it would be fun to wear bright T-shirts. So I dug them out and tried them on. They absolutely swamp me and I look ridiculous! I can't believe they used to be too tight. So charity shops, here I come yet again, because I sure as hell don't intend to grow back into them. But I still quite like the idea! Anyone know where I can get some plain, brightly-coloured T-shirts? I've got all my recent clothes from either outdoor shops or charity shops but I don't recall seeing any so I might have to widen my shopping horizons!

DorisAllTheDay · 24/03/2014 21:10

Forgot to say, so long as I get through the rest of the evening without incident, I'll have had another successful FD - about 420 calories which with my TDEE of 1700 is bang on target.

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 21:36

Yay Doris! Both on the FD success and the T-shirt victory.

Betsy what a wee corker your kid is!

Good to be reminded about a galf pizza & salad FD option, think I've avoided it as I'd be worried it wasn't fulling or gave me the munchies, may have to try it now though.

Smoked salmon, red pepper, rocket, balsamic & dolcelatte salad here, yummy but am peckish due to weekend of excesses, feels great to get back on the straight and narrow but I still want that toast, yes I can have it tomorrow, but annoyingly I won't want it then I'll bet!

BCF your venison dinner sounds very wintery and Scandanavian, are you a Norsky?

Night all, seeya in the blessed nfd morning; let there be toast.

zedzedzed · 24/03/2014 21:38

Stupid phone, half not galf, filling not fulling.

Helliecopter · 24/03/2014 21:39

Oh 90s t-shirts Doris now you've got me all reminiscent! I used to wear lots of baggy t-shirts too - awkward teenage years when I felt über self-conscious about having gone through puberty and my newly-acquired curves! If only I could give my younger self a stern talking to!

You can probably get plain t-shirts in Primark or for something a bit better quality, maybe Gap, M&S, BHS, or look online at something like Fruit of the Loom?

runningLou · 24/03/2014 21:45

End of FD and I have just tortured myself doing the online shop ... Bad idea on an FD, won't do that again!!
I am sooooo looking forward to tomorrow's breakfast already!
Right, off to have a rooibos before bed.
Slightly over target at around 600 cals today, due to stupidly putting a teaspoon of linseed on my quark which came in at about 50+ cals for the teaspoon (!!) but my soup this evening was delish - leek, cauli and spinach with a bit of garlic and a smidge of Thai green curry paste. Made loads to freeze for future FDs.

Helliecopter · 24/03/2014 21:52

I could never eat just half a pizza. It would lead to three pizzas.
And with white bread too. It triggers the carb monster in me and before I know it a whole loaf of crusty deliciousness has disappeared with half a pack of butter and jar of jam!

Happy with today's FD. Ate my first thing about 12:30pm - really nice home made soup that came in just under 100 cals and some strawberries. Dinner was my favourite roast aubergine with lots of mixed veg, griddles asparagus and some halloumi. Feels like a feast meal! Now having a last cup of herbal tea before turning in for the night.

I am a scale-a-holic and weigh quite often. I only take the weight reading after a FD though - first thing in the morning, naked and after a wee! But I am always interested to see what I weight after a NFD...or as I tell myself, what the food in my system weighs! Wink

runningLou · 24/03/2014 22:05

Right Hellie, I will re-weigh tomorrow after today's FD and go with that instead rather than this morning's ;)

EagleRay · 24/03/2014 22:06

Betsy so glad everything went ok with DS today

NFD for me today, and I made some exceedingly poor food choices earlier in the day but then managed to recover the situation! I got a falafel and houmous wrap, plus crisps and orange juice (meal deal thing from Tescos) and the whole lot came to 900 calories Confused The wrap looked kind of healthy but was over 500 cals. I didn't eat anything for the rest of the afternoon and had an Innocent veg pot for dinner. So, lots of supermarket, non-home made food, but I'm tired and I've got a cold and can't be bothered for once.

In other news, I've gone cold turkey with BF as I need to start taking the drugs again for my bothersome pituitary. The dosage gets ramped up over a few weeks and it's pill no. 1 tonight. Am slightly curious about the side effects as struggled when I took them before and but hoping things will be ok this time. Also curious to see what effect (if any) it'll have on my weight. Btw, the drug is Cabergoline and has provided the Daily Mail with some wonderful horror stories over the years with people having gone mad (or worse) taking them.

Am peed off I haven't been able to exercise for over a week now. Was going to tonight, but realistically I get 90 minutes between DD falling asleep and my own bedtime and most of that is taken up with preparing for the next day and frittering some time away on my laptop