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Fasting / 5:2 diet

The 5:2 thread number 39 - Chocolate-guzzling is NOT wanking: It should only be done in public! Learn healthy habits with our friendly 5:2 / IF support group

999 replies

BetsyBell · 13/02/2014 08:34

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low; around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.

Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.

This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.

This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

And lastly, a few FAQs/Healthy tips :

  • WATER: Start each day with a pint of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • Hot drinks: No limits on tea or coffee any day, just note any milk / sugar calories on FDs.
  • FDs: Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid / reduce starchy carbs & sugar, including juice. Soups & stews are good; ready meals are fine. Old hands skip breakfast & save most cals for supper.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar, artificial sweeteners, fizzy drinks, junk food. A few treats per week are good though! Aim to average TDEE over NFDs each week, but you may under-eat by say 20% on 3 NFDs to save calories for weekend.
  • CLENCH for health: Men & women should exercise pelvic floor daily.
  • Do NOT fast: if pregnant, under 21, or ill, even a bad cold. When ill, your body usually needs more nutrients and less stress. So eat to TDEE & cut out junk, added sugar, fizzy drinks.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs; optionally, reduce to 700 cals gradually.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss if you you do NOT eat back exercise calories. Fasted training can burn more fat. HIIT works well with 5:2/IF.
OP posts:
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womblesofwestminster · 17/02/2014 11:32

Morning all. Another week. Another fast day.

Is anyone else like me, and saves all their 500 cals for supper?

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BetsyBell · 17/02/2014 11:50

Lovely people, thanks for good wishes. Thankfully I was worrying unnecessarily after all. He needed some treatment but minor attention rather than the horrors that I was imagining. It's also assuaged my guilt I was feeling for being too relaxed/burying head in the sand when it comes to medical stuff. I've been doing the right thing all along.

Wombles I like to spread it over 2 meals usually. I get a bit wan and floppy in the afternoon if I don't eat some soup or salad.

Doris I love the analogy - keep hanging on to that wagon!

Eveesmummmy Shock

OP posts:
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KateBeckett · 17/02/2014 11:51

Oh gosh evees! What a start I the day... Hope your boss is okay. At least you'll be kept distracted!

We'll I'm currently munching on a banana feeling a bit dejected... Sooo hungry after my brunch I just couldn't wait. I figure at least it's healthy, and if I go over 500 today it's not too bad considering it's my first time. I hope anyway!

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BetsyBell · 17/02/2014 11:53

Kate - aim for 500 but don't feel bad if you go over - even 1000 calories is still much less than usual and heading in the right direction :)

OP posts:
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TwittyMcTwitterson · 17/02/2014 11:59

Yay Betsy!

That's what I'm doing Kate, if I have 800 I'll still be pleased with myself. Tiny footsteps...

My boss will be fine I'm sure. Must be bad as gone to Coventry instead of Northampton General, where we are!

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TalkinPeace · 17/02/2014 12:00

FAsting today : tea, yoga and housework.

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TwittyMcTwitterson · 17/02/2014 12:01

At the risk of sounding heartless, he's not the nicest person. I still care but not as much as other ppl do.

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ErrolTheDragon · 17/02/2014 12:12

Afternoon all - I'm 'on holiday' so not fasting but skipped brekkie and will have a smallish lunch - we'll be eating somewhere in Manchester this evening prior to seeing Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with Robert Lindsay.

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MrsFlorrick · 17/02/2014 12:18

Betsy. Phew!!! Grin Glad to hear its ok. Brew

Well FD in the bin. DC are driving me mad. I tried to take them for something interesting at the Greenwich food festival but no the little sh&ts started screaming and whining so I took them
To Costa for a grilled cheese sarnie and had one myself with a coffee so that's 800cals today! Hmm AngryArse. Annoyed.

Just so hungry. I know its TOMT but still I virtually want eat a horse. Angry

Perhaps its because I'm ill again and my body wants to stock up.

Better luck to the rest of you fasting today. Thanks

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KateBeckett · 17/02/2014 12:24

I only had half the banana - it was enough to stave off the worst of the hunger pangs, so I gave the rest to the guinea pig!

mrsF if you are I'll you need sustenance, don't be too hard on yourself!

I'm currently trying to decide whether I can wait until later in the week to see a dentist where I am registered (in the town where I work) or if I need to try and access the abysmal emergency dentist here. Which will involve phoning the emergency access number and hopefully being given the number of a dentist within 50 miles if I'm lucky... Tooth hurts tho! I can't decide...

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BsshBossh · 17/02/2014 12:24

Betsy what a relief about your DS Thanks.

I'm not fasting today because I'm still under target weight. Will keep an eye on scales to see if I can fast on Thursday instead (I do like fasting so want to keep at least one day a week... but it's silly to fast if I keep losing... and I just can't over eat on NFDs to make up the deficit).

But good luck Monday fasters!

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womblesofwestminster · 17/02/2014 12:31

TalkinPeace what yoga poses are your favourite?

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DorisAllTheDay · 17/02/2014 12:31

Betsy, I'm so glad to hear that it's nothing too serious. Have a Brew and gather yourself again - try to do something nice today to make up for the worry and the stress you must have been through.

Kate - I'm not exactly one to be giving advice since I'm limping after the wagon myself at the moment, but a tip that worked really well for me was to have a drink when I felt like eating, especially on FDs. I think that works about 90% of the time for me. But also, don't worry too much about it. If you can't get down to 500 right away, just aim at something significantly less than TDEE. The 500 calories thing isn't a magic all-or-nothing formula, just a way of getting your overall calorie intake down over the course of a week.

Evees, Grin at your honesty re how you feel about your boss's heart attack. I think I'd be the same! But it still must have been dramatic.

I've just read the link TIP posted about WW shares plunging. Haha! I don't feel sorry for them at all - I think the diet industry is an unmitigated evil, getting rich on the manufactured misery of lots of people, mainly women. Having read the link, I did some research on the company - I knew that they used to be owned by Heinz (yep, that'll be the company putting loads of extra sugar and salt into their products) but I didn't know whether they still were. Turns out they were bought out by a company called Artal Luxembourg (for 'Luxembourg' read 'off-shore tax haven') which is still the majority share-owner. Here's what Forbes has to say about their CEO:

The investment success [in WW] has clearly afforded Debbane a nice life style. Property records show he bought a 7,500 square-foot house in Greenwich, Ct., for $7.5 million in 2003. He added a $6 million Manhattan apartment in 2010. But he has not shown any desire to raise big Wall Street-fueled funds.

So there's lots of money to be made in keeping people in the yo-yo diet cycle. I only hope that websites like this one will put the corporate peddlers of misery out of business. Yay for us!

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ErrolTheDragon · 17/02/2014 12:47

MrsF - If you've got predictable TOTM, maybe you could plan that week a bit differently - set yourself up for success rather than struggling to do a fast on a day you know will be difficult?

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TalkinPeace · 17/02/2014 12:50

womble
I do lots of flow type stuff .... building up to some of the whacky arm balances, but I do like Warrior 3

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tiggermummy70 · 17/02/2014 12:54

puts on CFR hat...
evees he would be taken to coronary care centre as they may need to unblock artery that caused attack in first place. They will probably take him straight to cat lab he won't even go via a&e.
removes CFR hat...
Hope everyone has a good day, I had a little treat last night and ended up regretting it. As stomach was not impressed. Think I see a lot less carbs in my future.
Hugs on dc issues. Eldest is tiny 7 years old jusr 40lbs! dd2 is 5 and 45lbs. I know eldest is not 100% as she keeps loosing weight, but I refuse to make her miss an entire day of school just to get a blood test. Angry Downside of kids school being in central london!

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Dotty342kids · 17/02/2014 12:56

wombles I eat all my 500 cals in the evening but for the first month or two I had to use 80 or so of them at 2-3pm (banana usually!) as could not quite get through the day Smile

Now, I like to know that I can eat a good sized, filling dinner in the evening so just power on through the day. If I feel energy levels or willpower flagging then I have a small glass of diet coke at around 3 or 4 o'clock and that gets me through.

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MrsFlorrick · 17/02/2014 13:11

Errol. I don't normally struggle too much during TOMT. And yes mine a super predictable virtually to the hour. Smile

Don't know why it's so bad today. Perhaps its a combo of TOMT, continued illness, DH having been away for 6 days on the trot already and not returning till w/e and DC being on half term.

A nice list of excuses for eating too much (junk).

In the Maritime museum. It's rammed in here!!! DC are having a blast though. At least I can polish my parenting halo today Grin educational and fun. Get me eh. Wink

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MazzleDazzle · 17/02/2014 13:32

Afternoon folks!

FD here and it's sorely needed! Water, exercise and a bath so far. I'm also tackling my laundry mountain one day at a time, so will attempt some of that. I challenge anyone to have more odd socks than me. I'm well into double figures and there are only four of us!

Had a weekend of eating junk, then realised it was my ToTM so not going to be too hard on myself. On really bad days I am a slave to Rich Teas spread with butter Blush.

My Zaggora pants arrived yest. Apparently they keep your legs at a high temp, sucking in flab and squeezing out sweat. They promise slimmer, smoother thighs and were recommended by a girl in my exercise class. Here's hoping!

Was just reading the link someone posted, forget who, re. WW. Me stopping my WW online subscription has, in a tiny way, contributed to there plummeting shares. Can I claim that as a SV?

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TwittyMcTwitterson · 17/02/2014 14:02

ive had a slip... 2 x 132 calorie oatmeal bar type thing and a lolly. it could have been worse. i have two boxes full of sweets staring at me and theyve been calling to me all day. my choices were healthy considering!

ive had cereal, chicken, banana, lolly and 2 x bars. think ill skip food later :-(

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2014 14:23

Betsy
What a relief that there is nothing serious amiss with your DS
Grin
Also, thank you for the snot image Hmm.
I read it while enjoying our canteen rice pud, which is of vaguely snotty appearance, with slimy bits. Tastes good though (pud, I mean)

Shame that you and MrsF have re-acquired lurgies right after the previous ones. Maybe this dreadful rain is helping to incubate all these wretched bugs, as well as drowning so many homes.
Sad I do hope all 5:2ers here manages to stay healthy and housed.

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2014 14:27

Tip Thanks for the WW resizing link
Grin ^^
Positive I remember we calculated before that you were eating too much on NFDs.
Many folk combine 5:2 with 16:8, but it is still easy to over-eat a low TDEE like yours in 8 hrs (or indeed in 2 hrs for some of us !)

We all find calorie counting is a pain in the bum, but you need to do that and also plan your NFD meals the day before. Hopefully, you will soon get used to eating less and then you won't need to count any more.

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TalkinPeace · 17/02/2014 14:32

evees
drink more water or tea - best way to persuade your body it does not need food just yet

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BigChocFrenzy · 17/02/2014 14:32

MrsF I hope you won't try to fast while ill. You too, Betsy^^
You both know the rules when ill:

  • NO fasting
  • NO junk, including added sugar, any fizzy crap drinks
  • NO alcohol, but drink loads of WATER
  • Eat nutrient-rich food up to TDEE


MrsF Your toasted cheese sarny and a hot drink sounded just right.
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TwittyMcTwitterson · 17/02/2014 14:36

ive already drank two litres + one pint! all the trips to the toilet are exercise tho

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