The 5:2 thread number 38 -"Oh that this too, too solid flesh would melt" : Well, Hamlet, it can in a healthy, sustainable way. Join our friendly 5:2/IF support group"

[BigChocFrenzy]

The 5:2 thread number 36
The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and were a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links: Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskiers thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body right body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

Manuka honey is a flaming miracle!!!

After marinating in the stuff for hours yesterday, my face is so much better today.
All the pus is gone completely, the brown patches and yellow flaking skin is gone. Worst of redness has gone. Too

(Shallow and looks obsessed)

I am still pink with tight dry skin as its still healing. I am using my organic heavy duty pomegranate oil on it and more Manuka honey later.

Wow. Seriously. If I hadn't been such a wimp I should have posted a "before" photo yesterday and one today.
DH cannot believe the difference.
As there is no pus and no actual cracks in the skin now or open wounds or whatever you call it, I am going to assume that it will fully heal over.

It's uncomfortably tight and clearly dry still but miraculously better.

Sorry that all sounds terribly vain.

Wombles. How is your dDs arm today? Did she have a comfortable night? Btw I've broken my elbow when I was 8. It healed well and quickly too. I only remember being in pain until the got the cast on it was fine after that.

Eatriskier. How are you today??

Happy birthday doris

Well done ipoked, lily and whoever else has posted up so, Nov and anything else positive.

Glad the manuka is helping you out mrsf

Spent nearly 3 hours at the walk in centre, but have been diagnosed with a very bad case of bacterial tonsillitis. Have a decent course of antibiotics to take now, and permission to go mad on the cocodamol and ibuprofen for the next few days until it all kicks in. Feel a little better for knowing I have a real illness and not just a confluence if dodgy symptoms from my dodgy syndromes! Though naturally of course no fasting for quite a while.

Eatriskier. Poor you!! I hope it kicks in quickly. Why did no one offer me co codamol? Did you have to ask for it?

Happy birthday Doris.

ELR. How's the foot?? And your DDs tonsilitis??

Wayhay, MrsF, wonderful news about the Boat Race !
We must all remember the healing power of Manuka Honey
(I thought it was just good for one's insides)

Sadly I have a cocodamol stash for my cluster headaches and si joint problems, so I dipped into that myself. They didn't give me any more . May have to steal dms next time I see her. She has a good stash as they keep giving her it despite it doing nothing for her!

Another one who will go and buy some manuka honey shortly .... both my kids have inherited DH's feet so have recurring ingrown toenails ... anything that can help the skin recover is in my book ...

Have done stuff all today due to feline paralysis ( ie my compost heap cat has decided that laps are her favourite place )

Hi all, glad everyone us feeling a little better.
nrsf DD us fighting fit, winding DS up and being her usual cheeky Moody self so def on the mend. My foot is still killing me made it worse as spent all morning doing mY cooking classes in my ugg boots, do only my self to blame!
DS is at a party, do dd , dh and I have spent the afternoon watching a film and eating Hagen das only one scoop though! Do gkad it's not a fast day, going to make crispy duck pancakes for the tea. I had a jar of manuka but DS are it, prib why he's so healthy!!

Sorry for typos I'm on my shopping phone!

What grade/strength(?) manuka did you buy mrsF? I'd never thought of using it on skin... I'm wondering whether it would be any good on the constant stream of winter zits that seem to appear on my nose, not to mention the mouth ulcers.

I am sold!

Honey is incredible for skin ... I remember hearing about Bob Mann of the Low's Gully expedition and being amazed ....

Bigchoc.

ELR. Good news about DD. hope your foot improves soon.

Betsy. The one I got is an organic +20 New Zealand one from Waitrose. You can get +35 or +50 from Holland and Barratt but its a Kings ransom.

Eatriskier. About the co codamol. It's annoying to need them.
I was only asking because they offered me squat and I was feeling hard done by I can stop that now.

I am happy my face is better. I am about to apply more honey and sit and marinade in it.
Good job it's not summer or I'd be attracting flies bees and wasps.

Catching up on thread and sorry to hear of so many poorly people/DC/family.

Not sure whats going on at the moment but there are so many viruses around, lots of my colleagues off sick from work as well as lots of kids from my children's school

NFD here and husband away with work so currently watching MY choice of TV and having a few

This thread often has really useful info on topics far from 5:2 / IF.
Now I've learnt about honey on skin.

You raised an important point about wasps in summer, though, MrsF

Bigchoc. Probably best not to apply honey and go outside. Ants will be heading your way too.

Hope everyone is feeling a little bit better by now. I am, but I'm probably also high as a kite . The worse thing about a bad enough case of tonsillitis to cause a cluster headache and all the other problems (or at least worsen them) is that I have no fricking tonsils. They were removed 30 years ago ffs.

Anyway despite not craving alcohol, the fact I should have any really until I run my course means that all I can think of is a nice pint of ale. Not that I reckon I could swallow ale anyway, am still in the hot drinks only phase.

Do any of you lovely lot know anything about your calorie needs whilst ill? Dh and I were having a chat and we know nutrients are good but we wondered if you maybe needed more calories to burn to get well. Not trying to justify overeating as I'm struggling to eat, but it was an interesting theory.

Manuka honey is fantastic stuff. Really really good for stubborn skin infections. Just a bit sticky! Glad to hear it is helping your face heal, MrsF.

I was a very brave girl this morning and recorded everything I ate yesterday on MFP. Oh bugger! Did it again. Flippin' 500 calories over. However, I am trying to console myself as I might have burnt about 200 calories swimming. Still, I'm trying not to include the exercise calorie deficit.

I am having problems with afternoon munchies. As I said up thread,it is reminiscent of pregnancy. I get hungry around 4 pm and if I don't eat (drinking doesn't seem to cut it) I feel nauseous. I am pretty sure I am not pregnant (tho' there is a very faint possibility, approximately 0.1% at my age I suspect) so I am putting it down to hormones. I ended up eating another half of my calorie heavy muffins, as there seemed to be nothing else to eat in the house and a spoon of peanut butter didn't help ...

I will be glad when this week is over, AF comes and I can stop feeling like this. Alternatively a bfp would be quite nice....no, no,no, I will not get hopeful again...Either way, I want to stop sabotaging my weight loss.

Today I will try to go light so that I can make up for the overspend yesterday.

I must say, the key lime pie was Yumscious! And the gluten free pizza- also delish. So I did at least really enjoy DD's birthday food.

EarnesttheBavarian, I don't have celiac disease, at least not officially. I had a blood test for it which said I didn't have anti-bodies, but not a biopsy to rule it out. However, I am clearly intolerant to gluten because if I eat it I have all the symptoms of celiac disease and feel horrible. So I avoid it now and have done for years. Weirdly, I seem to tolerate it better whilst pregnant. I have discovered (after a huge number of tests for recurrent miscarriage) that I have an auto-immune disease, but no one can tell me what it is. They say it may not have fully surfaced yet, or it could simply be that I get eczema. Weird. My mum and dad both have auto immune diseases (Lichen planus, arthritis and diabetes) so I figure if going gluten free dampens inflammation, and 5:2 ing can heal the body, then I will stick with it.

How is everyone's weekend panning out? I think I may get into the garden today. I've had some seedlings waiting to be planted for two weeks, poor things. I hope they survive the transplant!

Eat, I am no expert. I think there are differing opinions on it. Apparently you don't burn anymore calories than normal, but you need nutrient dense foods to help you get well. I think you should let your body guide you and keep up fluids.

There's an interesting article here, which although about upset stomach, in the comments section there's stuff about colds too.

Eat When ill, your bod usually needs more nutrients to fight off disease, but not necessarily more calories for energy. However, certain illnesses can benefit from some fasting.

So, listen to your body and eat when hungry, but don't force yourself. Definitely try to cut out junk, added sugar and fizzy crap.

I posted refs to some promising investigations that indicate fasting may both help chemo work more effectively and also mitigate the side effects.

From personal experience, I suspect a Non-Junk Frenzy can sometimes prevent a cold, if performed at 1st symptoms. This has happened twice to me on 5:2, most recently last week:

Thursday evening, I felt I was starting a cold with fever, currently rampant here. I felt ravenous and had 3000-cal evening Frenzies Thursday and Friday in addition to 2000 cals spread over earlier meals. I also didn't train those days.
The lurgy didn't happen and today my appetite is back to normal, although I am not quite at my usual high energy level. So, I just did light training, which felt good.

I think Betsy or someone mentioned feeling very hungry with a cold. If so, in future it might be worth allowing a lot of extra calories and seeing if this stops the illness taking hold.

ps There was no added sugar in my Frenzies - they were protein, fat, veg and masses of complex carbs.

Hello lovelies,

I found 5:2 early last year, and I think it's amazing! I like to make fast days something to look forwards to, by finding exotic new recipes (or re-working old favourites) to eat along with my non-fasting fambly of two children (9 and 11), and my lovely other half, who doesn't need to lose a pound!

I started a group on Facebook last year, for other people on 5:2 to share recipes, and there are all sorts of recipes - we tend to have a focus on a different country for a month or so - so far, there have been recipes from India, Thailand, Japan and Spain - and we're currently doing China! There are also general recipes (think spag bol, fish and chips, lasagne, salads, soups etc.) and a wee bit of humour and banter. So if you're on Facebook and this sounds like your cup of tea, do come and join us for a bit of recipe inspiration, whether you're doing 5:2 or not! The group is called 5:2 Intermittent Fasting Recipes from Around the World, it's closed, so your Facebook friends won't see what you post, and we're very friendly :)

I did frenzy (with mostly good stuff) and the result was a cold and several extra pounds bcf

Is there some truth behind the old adage of "feed a cold and starve a fever" ?

Maybe megrim although maybe not with a sardine, peanut butter and mint jelly sandwich!!

Morning all - interesting the discussion about feeding a cold. Also, thanks for the info about the Facebook recipes too.

Here it's my Birthday. I went out for a meal with DH last night and it was lovely. But it's difficult to know if how I. was re my TDEE. Anyhow I had decided to stick to saving all my cals until that meal and so the rest of the day I was on liquids only.

We finished eating late so I could wait until later before having something. My neighbour has invited us round for crepes so if we go for about 4 ish that would give me a 16/8 today . And I won't feel so stuffed.

Tomorrow will be a FD. So don't want to be too hungry or go too mad and spoil my last weeks good work.