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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 36 - Fighting (& losing) the Battle of the Bulge? Eating too much junk? 5:2 is a healthy, sustainable way to achieve & maintain your goal weight. Join our friendly support group!

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2014 15:27

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2014 11:38

Oh, poor you, ELR, that sounds rotten. (({big hugs}))
Rant whenever you want, if it helps; that's why we're all here.

Yes, medicines with their side effects are sometimes not helpful.
Also, I gather that either chiropractors start to bring improvement within 3-4 sessions, or the treatment isn't going to help (except for helping their bank balance).
Hope you find some practical help very soon
Flowers

OP posts:
clarinetV2 · 22/01/2014 11:38

2 lb off for me this week, which is better than I'd hoped for given that two of my NFDs have been well over TDEE. More importantly I'm back in control after a December of completely uncontrolled eating in which I gained a stone and a half. I've now lost 10 lb of that - the first few pounds were water, I know, but I'm dead chuffed to be back on top of things and heading in the right direction.

Annie, I think the thing that most helped me get back on track was thinking very short-term and not dwelling on what had gone wrong. So I just decided to try one day, and broke that down into single hours. It seems to be working OK, apart from two rather excessive NFDs - which were still nowhere as uncontrolled as I was back in December. If you've done it before, you can certainly do it again. Go for it!

Today's another FD for me - hello anyone else who's fasting.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2014 11:40

oh, btw, ELR, I find a good sauna and / or reflexology helps me feel better.

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 22/01/2014 11:42

ELR have you thought of acupuncture? It sorted out all my osteoarthritis pains a few years ago and now I just go if they show signs of returning (rarely).

A couple of my friends have also benefited. Worth a try?

It was looking to avoid permanent ibuprufen tablets that started me down that path - I'm also at the low end of the anaemia range.

BetsyBell · 22/01/2014 11:47

((((ELR)))) - sorry missed your post xxx

BigChocFrenzy · 22/01/2014 11:52

Annie You know best what worked for you in the past, but most people do this:

  • eat mostly protein and veg, without starches or fruit
  • low cal soups and stews, also salads, are good
  • skip breakfast if you can and save most calories for evening

Advance planning & preparation is key:

  • select a day without social events , extra job stress etc
  • plan your meals in advance with calorie count and buy or prepare everything.
  • plan plenty of FD water, so buy/ prepare bottles in advance if needed
  • if not working, plan what you are doing to stay busy and away from the fridge
  • organise everything else you need to do that day re job, family etc
  • make sure you get a good night's sleep before
  • start the FD with a big drink of water - I drink a pint
OP posts:
zedzedzed · 22/01/2014 11:54

Well done Lubey!

Hello to the de-lurked/newbies. It's great here, you'll love it.

KICK that was for those requesting arse action to get on track...if you get me. Jump in again, go on, hour by hour, it's not so bad.

So, TOTM turned up a week early, took me surprise but totally explains the cupcake frenzy yesterday (uncharacteristic that, am always more of a savoury muncher except at totm when I get a bit of bigchoc's frenzy).

Will try to keep it in check today, curling up with hot water bottle and painkillers now, will take my TDEE as it comes though and not count too strictly, it's my other FD tomorrow.

Good luck Wednesday fasters!

Hope it's exiting news foxsticks go on...POAS!

annielewis · 22/01/2014 11:55

Thanks everyone - I have scuppered this one now as also found some left over choc and scoffed that too! Blush

Am planning a 16;8 for tomorrow now, would do a fd but going out on a date night with H tomorrow (guess we'd better stop fighting then!)

ELR have just been catching up on the thread - I was going to suggest acupuncture too - I've had it before for similar problems and it did really help! Just make sure you get an approved practitioner. Some GPs will even refer you now.... might be worth asking when you go to get your bloods checked Wink

Good luck todays fasters and thanks for the swift kick! Smile

TalkinPeace · 22/01/2014 12:00

vvviola
I would strongly suggest telling your DH that you are doing 5:2
suggest that he joins you for the health reasons alone (as people like me do)
and if you DO go out for lunch, see if you can work out the yummiest lunch of under 400 calories each
my favourite tactic is to have two starters as they are small, flavoursome and tend to be carb free
then DD can scoff chips at you and you can BOTH feel virtuous

(((( ELR ))))
My Dad's GF had planar fascitis. Its an utter bastard.
All I can suggest is pilates - as much as you can - because then you have little or no weight on your feet, get the whole of your torso strengthening up - so will help the neck and shoulder TiP thinks 99% of chiropractors are money grabbing quacks and get you feeling a bit better.
Also, anything to get your circulation moving a bit more will help your endochrine - and therefore thyroid - system settle a bit. ThanksThanksThanksThanksThanksThanks

Megrim · 22/01/2014 12:29

ELR - I've had great results from a chiropractor for a sore back, but it was sorted in about 3 sessions. Have you thought about a sports physio instead? They might also be able to help with your plantar fasciitis?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 22/01/2014 12:37

Hello everyone Smile.

TiP - haven't looked at the stomach muscles picture as a bit squeamish. TBH it doesn't bother me at the moment as my tummy looks much better for the 2 stone loss I currently have but I know if some weird pains come back I will have to get that looked at.

No mice this morning. I have started putting the cats in the utility room while I go out and I keep the door shut when I am in. They are allowed in the house once I have checked their mouths. GirlCat currently sleeping on DS2's bed and BoyCat is out somewhere so I am sure he will be back with a mouse later. DS2 gets rid of the mouse if there is one and he is down first. If I have to do it as no one else here I wrap it in loads of kitchen roll and put it in the outside bin. Generally the cats are no where to be seen when I do this. Once there was one in the dining room and GirlCat was there but she refused to remove it.

I have been playing with GirlCat and some string in the hope they won't want to play catch the live mouse and bring it in to show Mummy.

Shock RavenousRunner! Your poor MIL Sad.

ELR - sooner you get your bloods done sooner you will start feeling better.

annielewis - gentle kick up the bum Flowers.

Just heard BoyCat miaow to let me know he is home. I will go and check him in a minute.

FD today going well. Baking some fish for DH and I for dinner. He will have new potatoes with his and I am having salad. It is my second of the week and I am peckish but doing okay.

Off to let BoyCat in. Wish me luck...

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 22/01/2014 12:45

No mice . BoyCat is now settling down on my bed.

I have inputted my dinner into MFP and it says it is 95 calories Shock. How can that be right and does it mean I should eat something now? I am peckish but I am resisting as I don't want to set off the munchies.

TalkinPeace · 22/01/2014 12:51

Toffee
DO LOOK AT MY ABS PICTURE
its nothing to do with squeamish at all WinkGrin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 22/01/2014 13:06

Okay, will do. It better not be!

MazzleDazzle · 22/01/2014 13:08

Well done Clarinet, Luby and everyone else who's had a SV!

Zed noo I kain you dinna come fae far I bide. We hae a fesh supper wi plintee broon saace on oor cheps 'n' it's bo'les o' Moray Cup tha' we drenk. Aey me, the thocht's makin ma moo wa'er! Wink

Broke my 38 hour LOF with 1/2 a red onion bagel topped with full fat Philidelphia and a small bowl of Moroccan Cous Cous & Chicken. Feel really motivated today! I am now 5:2 and eating mindfully on my NFD, rather than 4:3 and binging. Had one blip earlier in the week (see earlier post on malteaser slice Blush), but was still within TDEE.

Catch you guys later! Good luck with the rest of your day!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 22/01/2014 13:09

Hmm

I am speechless. I must be getting old as I did not like that. Someone else naked might have been better as I don't know who he is and don't fancy him Grin.

No chance mine will never look like that!!

zedzedzed · 22/01/2014 13:18

Aye bit noo ah ken faur you bide ya daft quine! East meets West Mazzle and we'll be in skinny afore yeeeeeeeez.....

Good luck!

MrsFlorrick · 22/01/2014 13:29

(((ELR)))) Sad
Can I bore you with a little story of what was going on with mrsFlorrick when she was 36 year old?

I had my first DC weeks after turning 36. I had had gestational diabetes during pregnancy. Gained almost 7 stone because of it.
I had huge problems with my SI hip joints (not being able to walk or stand without falling. Great with a newborn!)
The gestational diabetes didn't settle after birth and I had numb hands and feet for months after (not diagnosed properly. Hospital "forgot" to tell me or GP Angry).
I had excess water on board during last months of pregnancy which completely split my stomach muscles. I had a gap of two hands and my bowels would get trapped in between the loose muscles at night when I turned over in bed causing agony.

I saw the GP perhaps 16 times in 3 months after DD was born. She offered me strong pain relief and a wheel chair. They just have up on me.
I was 36 with a new baby and official on scrap heap. Sad

Went to private GP to get diabetes sorted. Went to physio to get stomach muscles and SI joint issues sorted.

I spent 11 months having physio. Twice a week.
I gritted my teeth (and cried buckets when DD was in bed).
But I pulled myself back from the cliff edge of that scrap heap.
Enough so that when DD was 14 months we decided to try for DS (who is smearing grapes on toy..Hmm).

This time I knew what could await me so I kept up physio etc and despite diabetes being in check I gained lots so I ended up at the same weight again.

That said I had kept on top of the physical stuff and I knew what all the issues were and what to expect.

I had all the extra weight and another massive 8 finger stomach muscle gap and SI pain.

So back to square one. Lots of physio and back to weightloss.

DS is is 2.5 years old. My stomach muscle gap is 1 finger and only around the belly button. (Makes my stomach stick out a bit but only a little).
I am 2 lbs away from goal weight Grin
Most of the time my SI joints don't bother me. I do Jillian Michaels workouts no problem as well as lugging heavy children around etc. no issues with standing and moving and pain. Grin

If you had told me 5 weeks after my 36th birthday that this would be possible and that I would be ok again, no way would I have believed that. Not at all.

I know its awful to have health problems.

I am here for hand holding and to tell you that you have to Fight For It! Grin
PM me if you want to.

DontBeBlueBeARainbow · 22/01/2014 13:30

FD7 today and so far, so so.

Cheshire I also find the 2nd FD of the week harder. Maybe because I do Mon and Wed so only have one NFD in between... What about you - Mon and Wed too? Definitely feel better this Wed than last Wed though, I know I'll make it.

Hello Clarinet and other FDers Brew

Thanks to all for advice about convincing DH about not losing muscle on this WOE. He seems to have warmed slightly to the idea.

Accidentally had 3 Ryvitas mid-morning, so dinner will only be 143 cals worth of veg soup. It's a bit of a spread out day calorie-wise, and I was dismayed to learn that each cup of Twinnings Sensations fruit teas is about 4 cals.... so can't drink completely freely. Oh well.

Happy to discover quite how low-cal shop bought salsa is, having that with crudites for lunch shortly.

Really enjoying HIIT on my FDs too, definitely feel I can face it on a FD (whereas I cannot face a 30 minute run!) and enjoy it alot, such a challenge Grin

Good luck all, keep it up!

MrsFlorrick · 22/01/2014 13:33

And yes I know you don't want to fight for it. It feels so much easier to curl up and forget about it.

I'm telling you not to. You can get yourself back again. And we are all here.
And big ups for fasting when you feel this shit.

TimeToPassGo · 22/01/2014 13:51

Poor ELR :( That is a lot on your plate, so sorry you are having to deal with it all Thanks I think you know yourself that you need a plan. Also have you been tested for diabetes? I know it can cause tiredness too. Get those bloods done my lovely! Another recommendation for pilates BUT only if you go to a qualified physio who is doing it one to one. It is expensive but 2-3 private sessions will get you stuck in. Big classes are no use if you have existing back and neck problems because you really need to watch your form.

MrsF that is a really encouraging post, you were very brave getting pregnant again! I've been putting it off because I really don't like GD (even though I lost weight last time rather than gaining!). You had a lot to overcome Thanks

Another 2lbs off this week on the WW / 5:2 hybrid. Have now lost 9lbs since the 6th Jan so really pleased. Next week I will prob gain or stay the same as it's my heavy hormonal time of the month but will hopefully have a good loss the following week instead!

zedzedzed · 22/01/2014 13:52

God elr didn't catch your earlier post. How totally shite for you. It's awful isn't it?

I'm only 38 and I felt a very bad 50ish after my LOs were born (carpal tunnel and floppy ligaments meant that walking/moving/everything was a painful chore...I remember waking up already crying every morning and having to get DH to massage my hands for 20mins to move the fluid/pain and then he'd have to cut my toast for me as I couldn't grip...which made me cry more. And the separated tummy muscles and the buggered knees from the 7 stone weight gain and the giant infected c-sections and PTSD and blah-blah-blah).

It's not easy to find yourself again amidst all that crud, but here you are, trying, and like Mrs F said, maybe we can find the strength to fight for it. Especially with support...and drugs, really good drugs! (((hugs)))

MrsFlorrick · 22/01/2014 14:07

Timeto. Brave. Not sure. DH didn't want DD to be only DC (he is) so he whisked us to the Maldives and wood me.
Actually this is exactly how DD came to be. Trip to Maldives followed by pregnancy.
Yikes we are going to Maldives again later this year, all 4 of us BUT this time my legs are staying firmly shut! My uterus is closed for business!

Zedzed. Sad That's awful. One thing I've found in MN is that becoming a mother can certainly take its toll. ((((Zedzed)))))

Yes to support. Any of you need handholding with this sort of thing PM me or post here. I am around.

MrsFlorrick · 22/01/2014 14:08

Wood!!?? That should be "woo'd". Hmm
Anyway woo and then came "wood" Hmm

Eatriskier · 22/01/2014 14:22

elr Flowers for you. Hope you feel better soon. Must be the season for blood tests and thyroid issues, I'm off for tests tomorrow too - suspected hyperthyroid.

On a related note, little Mrs 'I can easily fast for blood tests coz I fast all the time' has remembered that also means no coffee. How do I fast with no coffee and not kill anyone? Grin