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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2014 21:36

Just back from 80 mins boxing. We also did a tabata session as usual.
I'm usually only allowed to hit the hunks, not throw them around
Sad

ErrolTheDragon · 05/03/2014 21:43

Well the silver lining to walking instead of JM today is that I've never acquired Lytham shrimps, dressed crab and plaice during a dvd workout.Smile

MrsFlorrick · 05/03/2014 22:09

Big choc. You need to have words!!! Not acceptable! Hunk throwing is surely a must? Wink

MrsFlorrick · 05/03/2014 22:09

Errol. Drools at shrimp. Hmmmm.

BetsyBell · 06/03/2014 10:11

Thought about going for a run but had some strong coffee and dusted off a Jillian DVD instead: Killer buns and thighs. Some great stuff on there. As you can tell by the name it doesn't focus on upper body (though plenty of non-static plank based moves) so I did some chest flyes and other weights. Attempted a couple of press ups, though gave up due being spent from Jillian torture. Will do some more later.

The advantage/disadvantage (depending on mood) of home exercise is I'm forced to warm up by cleaning and vacuuming lest I be asphyxiated by dust bunnies.

This is my first Thursday morning to myself for months so feel like I'm taking full advantage - clean(ish) house, caffeinated and worked out all by 10am.

Fasting today.

MrsFlorrick · 06/03/2014 11:19

Betsy. Yy to dusting and hoovering or choking on dust during a JM session. Grin

FD here too and am cleaning. Hmm It's funny how DH sacked the cleaner (whom I hired) and said "we" would do the cleaning yet in 8 weeks he has hoovered part of the kitchen once. Angry

Oh well at least cleaning burns calories and makes for a good warm up for a workout. Still though Angry
Cannot work out how I ended up like this. It's crap. I want my old life backSad

BigChocFrenzy · 06/03/2014 12:20

MrsF Poor you, what an arse your DH is. Does he make these spending decisions on his own, because "he earns the money" ? A great partner.

Life is too short to do housework if one can avoid it. Hence why I have my regular cleaning duo on Saturdays. I enjoy sitting in my chaise longue drinking espresso and MNetting on iPad supervising while they clean every square inch of my tip.
Afterwards, I have loads of energy for a few hours in the gym.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2014 12:31

There was something on the radio this morning about how British women are the champions of multitasking, but that we have to be because our chaps are so bad at it.

MrsFlorrick · 06/03/2014 12:33

Big choc. Yes that's it and because he is an arse!!

It wasn't like this before (pre DC). I worked and earned as much as he did in fact some years I earned much more.

We did things together and decided things together.

It crept in slowly. A little after dd was born but at that point I still had my own money from rental properties and a six figure sum in the bank from a last bonus.

After DS was born it all went pear shaped. We bought the current house just before DS was born and I stupidly stupidly sunk the last of my cash into stamp duty legal fees and the £70k difference in price between this house and last one.

And rental income is now used to pay school fees. For a while after DS was born it was used to pay for food and house hold. Angry

And now he has me exactly where he wants me at home with no money and no access to any but what he gives me (refuses to get a joint account), I can't get a job because he refuses to lay out for child care and says I have to get the job first! Which I can't because I don't have enough time to even attend an interview (assuming I'd actually even ever get one now I've been sahm for so long!).

And I just pick up after him and DC and cook and clean Sad

I mostly want to run away from it all.

womblesofwestminster · 06/03/2014 13:09

refuses to get a joint account

Why? :(

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2014 13:16

How old are your DC, Mrs F? (just trying to get full picture).

MrsFlorrick · 06/03/2014 15:07

DC are 4.6 and 2.6.

He claims there's no need for JA. Pah.

I posted on MN about a year ago about it all when it got too much.

Got some excellent advice esp from Anyfucker (LTB obv!!)

Who'd have thunk it eh. That you could still get "trapped" with children and nothing for yourself at the age of 40 with a long glorious career behind you and a degree and a masters. It wasn't supposed to be like this.

BetsyBell · 06/03/2014 15:47

Hmm MrsF, so how about you stop paying school fees from the rent on your house and it comes out of his wages if he won't deign to share????

womblesofwestminster · 06/03/2014 16:09

It's financial abuse.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2014 16:17

Must have been a very high powered career if you got a 6-figure bonus.

You really do need to reclaim yourself somehow. You haven't been a sahm for that long. How about you start job-hunting - if you get an interview then you can cross the bridge of finding time for it... I'm sure you're capable of doing that.

If you're paying the school fees for your DD, what will happen when your DS hits school age? Either your DH is capable of paying a set of fees now, or you're going to have to have more income if you're planning on covering 2 sets, surely?

BetsyBell · 06/03/2014 17:01

I'm pretty sure he'd be more useful to you divorced...

MrsFlorrick · 06/03/2014 17:17

Sorry just lost my post.

The rental income is now paid into his account. I, in a moment of madness, changed it to be paid into his account to pay school fees and bills.

It can be changed back but not realistically until tenancy renewal/exp. one is up in July and the others in October.

I know. I am old enough and educated enough to know better.

I've had the wool firmly pulled over my eyes and I let it happen.

Yes I was well paid. Bonus usually six figures and salary the same.

Problem is that my old industry is the last bastion male chauvinism and I wouldn't really be a welcome prospect with DC in tow.

The hours are unfriendly and i used to travel abroad 3/4 days a week. So lots of over nights away.
There isn't a part time or watered down version of my old job.

I essentially need to retrain to join a different part of the industry. However they can get fresh graduates for nothing who will work all the hours and what they don't need is a middle aged has-been who costs too much and needs to nip off every five minutes to sort out small children.
Back in the day, I wouldn't have employed me, that's for sure.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2014 21:47

MrsF - maybe you need to think outside the box - you surely must have transferrable skills. Not everyone wants cheap, inexperienced new grads.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/03/2014 22:00

MrsF I'm so Angry on your behalf. You've been cold-bloodedly trapped while you weren't looking.
Have you already instructed your agents in writing that, when the current tenancies end / renew, ALL income is to be paid into your account.

Absolute minimum aim after that: get a cleaner and sufficient childcare so you can have a life.
Sounds like you can't resume your old career (unless you are prepared to get a live-in au pair and see a lot less of the DCs)

BigChocFrenzy · 06/03/2014 22:20

Let him do his own shopping, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc
Only vacuum the bedroom when he wants a lie-in.
Shake him thoroughly awake whenever you get up to see to the DCs.

Expose his nastiness in public, especially in front of his colleagues and bosses.

MrsFlorrick · 06/03/2014 22:35

Errol. I do have lots of transferable skill in fact I have lots of skills. Thing is how best to make use of them.
It would probably be good to speak to a few old contacts and throw ideas around. I'm not ready for that just now though. So much going on with FIL being ill

Bigchoc. I know. I cannot believe it either!! It sucks. I've always been v careful to avoid exactly this sort of thing.
The problem has several layers to it. Obv I wasn't paying attention. I was also very pregnant some of the time which throws your judgement out completely.
The other I did, because I was pregnant or with a newborn, ignore some massive alarm bells which should have made me sit bolt upright and take action.
And clearly he was prepared to very slowly manipulate me into this situation. AngryAngry

I am not just here on MN whining. I am taking steps.
Firstly I decided to sort my body out and get back to "normal" looks wise.
I'm not quite there although with clothes on, I look like I used to so that's a good start.
I am now turning my hand to what I can do.
Next step is speaking to people and see what comes of it.

As for H and the DC. Whatever I do I want to be extremely careful. My DM divorced x 4 and remarried. Nightmare childhood. No stability.
I don't want to ruin the DC lives for the sake of getting one over on H.

I also suspect that I can restore the balance if I am working again. And perhaps we can again become what we once were. Although that may be a ridiculous dream particularly as I'm so angry all the time. And he is oblivious and gets very annoyed when tackled and claims its in my head. AngryAngry

Anyway none of this has anything to do with working out.
I did 6 hours of cleaning today so no JM. Back on it tomorrow thought.

TalkinPeace · 06/03/2014 22:35

((((((( MrsF )))))))
I know your DH is stressed because his dad is ill, but that does not excuse him being a shit.
Hire a cleaner : go overdrawn if needs be because the bank will just sweep the money from his account.
Hire a nanny : ditto
and now it gets fun ...... hire a personal trainer, so you can kick him in the gobbleblodgets after a few months

I managed 3 sets of 10 pressups today - hands on the bosu, one foot on top of the other so only core muscles to stop me wobbling.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/03/2014 23:05

Tip Another enjoyable variation:

In XFit circuits on Tuesday, our press-ups were alternating between floor and medicine ball, keeping body always braced in a straight line.
So, constantly moving one hand at a time sideways and vertically,from floor to ball to floor. Obviously no knees on the floor at any time.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/03/2014 23:08

Are you able to charge anything to his account, MrsF, since you don't have a joint one ?

MrsFlorrick · 06/03/2014 23:32

TIP. Thanks. We bank with different banks so no sweeping will be done.

It's all a bit mad just now. My insomnia is back big time. Not helpful as I'm a zombie during the day and ratty with the DC.

FILs op last week has turned into complications and an infection and MIL is beside herself. Fingers crossed things will go as the consultants claims and FIL will be well enough to go home in 10 days time.

Bigchocfrenzy. Will squats firm up my arse. In particular the lower parts of it? I'm quite keen to find the best way of firming the lower parts to stop it having this over hang by my thighs.

Bloody aching after 5 days of restarting JM and 6 hours full on cleaning today.

The excellent news is that my arms are now very firm and no hint of a bingo wing anywhere. Calves and thighs are quite good too.

I'm confident I can whip my arse into shape. Quite worried about my stomach. It's really not pretty.