Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/03/2014 23:59

HIIT is High Intensity Interval Training, meaning full blast for usually between 20 secs and 2 mins, then rest briefly, then do more intervals.

HIIT enables you to reach much higher intensity than going all out for 15 or 30 mins and hence, for complicated scientific reasons, is considered superior for fat-burning and insulin metabolism.

Soumds like JM doesn't really have intervals.

Try replacing a couple of JM sets with even a shorter time doing intervals.
E.g. try doing burpees for 8 intervals of 30 secs, with 20 secs break.
You can mix it up with skipping, squats, sprints, pressups, lunges or do all the same exercise.

That'll raise your pulse.

MrsFlorrick · 04/03/2014 00:49

Sorry Bigchoc. I'm not explaining JM well.

The HIIT part are things like burpees and then strength and abs.

It's like 3 mins strength then 3 mins HIIT then 2 min abs. And you do 3 circuits of that all with different exercises.

Her HIIT are mountain climbers, plank jacks (ouch), burpees with a jump at the top.

Strength are things like pendulum lunges with serving biceps with weihhts). Spider planks, plank with alternating row with weights. Stork stance with a row. Sumo squats with bicep raises with weights.
Abs are things like AB holds going into bridge and back again. And a wide variety of leg raised with crunch side crunch with leg raises. Etc etc you get the idea.

Not very good at explaining it.

I do get what you're saying about a. 60 min HIIT session. Just can manage it while DC are so small. In 18 months time DS will be at school so then hopefully I can.

Before I discovered JM. I only swam. I just couldn't squeeze anything else in. And I don't like going to classes at the gym. I'm embarrassed. Running was never my thing. But pre DC I did used to do weights in the gym.

Just can't do classes. I feel like a twat. It's ok for me to look like a twat at home doing JM so I do it.

EarSlaps · 04/03/2014 06:59

Yes, JM is strength with cardio intervals. Lots of getting your heart rate through the roof and then active recovery with less intensive moves. I know you're supposed to do it 5-6 times a week, but I usually manage more like 3-4 times and I've still had brilliant results from it. With a 4yo and a 22mo and a husband who works long hours I would really struggle to do any more than that so I've just tried to get into a routine that is sustainable rather than going all out and then giving up as it's too difficult to fit in. Netflix on the iPad helps me get it done Smile.

Hopefully that routine should keep me going for a bit. I'm only 34 so by the time I hit menopause age and struggle to maintain a bit more my children should be all grown up.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 12:28

The point about JM is that it's doable and it covers most of the bases even if not totally ideally.

You can do it with 'girlie' weights if that's all you can manage to start with, and work up to bigger ones (I'm using my 10lb pair for some of the stuff at the moment and sometime will get some bigger ones). You can make it more HIIT by really going for the cardio to your max (its 4x30 secs x3 in shred and ripped) for each 30 secs and then hitting the pause button.

It establishes a habit - so now I'm pretty much doing it every weekday, with some extra stuff after.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 12:37

Today my 'extra stuff' was a bit scuppered because one of the things I'd planned was some lower abs and sideplanks but my back is hurting, so they're exactly what I can't do. It was hurting a bit yesterday too, don't know what I did to it. Housework I expect.

Anyway, I did a lot of triceps dips and also experimented with what I shall term XX-not-so-fit press-ups.... so, the thing that stops me doing the x-fit press-ups is that first/last few inches... but BC says you don't actually have to go totally to the floor for a pressup to count. Putting that together, arranged a little platform for my torso so started just a little bit elevated (but straight legs/bod) ... Grin.

womblesofwestminster · 04/03/2014 13:00

Why does everyone love JM so much? I prefer an actual class with actual people. More motivating.

Suzannewithaplan · 04/03/2014 13:30

Pretty sure that the fact that JM can be done at home at your own convenience is a big factor Wombles!

Some people don't lack for motivation but are hard pressed to fit in with class schedules and get to the gym.

womblesofwestminster · 04/03/2014 13:32

ahhh yes. Living your life by the gym's schedule is a pain in the arse.

So is JM like metafit?

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 14:18

I'd hate a class with other people. When I did go to the gym I did stuff alone anyway. Didn't even like it much when DH went at the same time as that meant compromising how much time I wanted one way or the other.

So is JM like metafit?
Don't know - had a look at the metafit website and it doesn't exactly explain what it does. Probably because they want to charge you lots of money... the JM dvds are much cheaper (which is definitely a factor for some people) - shred is £5 and the first level is free on youtube so you can try without spending anything.

MrsFlorrick · 04/03/2014 14:50

Errol. Exactly! Grin

Wombles. Many good features of Jillian Michaels DVDs.
One is that it can be done at home and most are 25 to 35 mins long. So toddler friendly.

And the other is results. The combo of HIIT and strength is proven and her system is based on that.

Another is that in her DVD she features with 2 other girls. One girl is done a beginner version of all the moves. So that if you're very unfit or very overweight you can still participate.
She herself does an intermediary and the last girl does super advanced.

It means that as you get fitter you can still keep using her various DVDs and just move it up a notch.

Go and Google Jillian Michaels and 30 day shred and have a look and people posting on MFP about their "before and after". Some serious results.

That's what made me try it in the first place.

You can't go wrong with it. Obv there are a million fitness DVDs to try but this is small DC friendly and it seems to target the female wobbly bits particularly well.

Worth a go. Go on Wombles. I dare you..Grin

womblesofwestminster · 04/03/2014 16:01

Worth a go. Go on Wombles. I dare you

I'm tempted. But as a SAHM I really cherish my gym time as a 'break' from the home. KWIM?

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 16:15

wombles - if gym is also a leisure/social activity that's great Smile. Its all a matter of finding what suits you, isn't it? Because - as I've probably said before, the most effective exercise regime is one you actually do. Grin

BetsyBell · 04/03/2014 18:53

Yay, managed to upload my Yellow Belt victory photo! It's on my profile if you want to see me looking extremely pleased with myself after my Tae Kwon Do grading on Saturday Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 19:11

Well done Betsy! You smash the board with your palm? Confused - I can't imagine how that works.

EarSlaps · 04/03/2014 20:06

Well done Betsy!

Yes, exercise at home suits me so much better. DH gets home from work at 7ish, then we put boys to bed. Ds2 won't go to sleep for anyone but me so I wouldn't be able to get to the gym until 8.30ish, by which time most classes are finished and I am knackered! In the 25-40 minutes JM takes (depending on the DVD) I wouldn't even be able to drive to the gym and back.

BetsyBell · 04/03/2014 22:07

Sort of punch through the board with the heel of your hand errol, fingers are slightly curled down so you have to make sure the angle is right to not smash the fingers!

I've got to think of a fitness challenge for my next belt... I'm halfway to proper press ups, I would like that to be a challenge as I can practise easily at home, but I think I'd need to stipulate them to be low as possible to count as a challenge, and maybe make myself to 20 15 of them as I can just about squeeze out 10 not-very-good-but-not-entirely-girly ones.

I'd really like to be able to do pull ups but have literally no way of practising them Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2014 22:29

Lovely photo, Betsy. The proud grin says it all. Well done on your belt !
Flowers
You look fit and fantastic

Gym vs Home Training
Each of us must find what we can and will do. I hate training on my own and need organised classes, or the gym weights area for lifting.
I tried DVDs years ago and hated them, so I thought I needed equipment.
Hmm
I had to pay someone to dismantle & dispose of a fantastic £6,000 home gym setup in my cellar consisting of weight towers, weight rack, stair-climber, treadmill, bike etc that just gathered dust.
Blush

Training Programs
ntbo: you only know if your diet is correct and training program sufficiently intense by your body shape and performance.

If you are not getting the results you want:

  • your goal is unrealistic: no 4-min mile today, sub-15%bf is for top pros.
  • check you are not eating back your cal deficit on NFDs, or missing FDs
  • increase intensity of your program, or change the type of exercise, e.g. more HIIT, or heavier lifting.
ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 22:52

I'd really like to be able to do pull ups but have literally no way of practising them
Betsy, if you google 'alternatives to pull-ups' you'll find some ideas - e.g. there's this which gives easier alternatives which don't require a bar, and there are other suggestions for the bar-less if you can already do them (one being 'find a playground')- might be worth a few minutes poking around those?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2014 23:17

Betsy I thoroughly approve of your pressup goal. They are absolutely the most important exercise you can do for strength. They work the main upper body muscle groups, abs, even bum.

I'm sure if you also include sets of 20 reps for XFit pressups, that you will soon be doing lots of nice low BigGirl ones.
Smile
I'd recommend just doing pressups with the wider arm position, as they are easier than the narrower. Most folk who are near their goal, like you, improve more by concentrating on one particular form.

if you really want another challenge, what about an ATG one, where you add 5 per week to your number of reps.
ATG are the best strength training for your lower body - bum & thighs epecially - so would perfectly complement the pressups.

Errol You probably are best continuing with both wide and narrow, because you still have quite a while to go before your first full pressup - you need to avoid getting stale.

Also, the variety will help build the higher overall upper body strength that I think you need.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2014 23:26

BC - yes, that's what I figured pretty much so mixing it up with wide arm lowish including XX-not-so-fit (TM), and narrow arms higher.

Might have to bail for a couple of days though, don't know what my back is whingeing about... I've never had back problems before and wasn't aware of straining anything recently. Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2014 23:28

Pullups I recommend the "Australian" or reverse pullup AustPullup which build up the same muscles, but are much easier.
You set the bar height to suit your strength level.
Lie underneath the bar and pull yourself up, keeping heels on the ground and body all in one line.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/03/2014 23:35

errol Always rest an over-strained back by not lifting any dumbbells, obviously no planks, pressups etc. Usually takes a week, unless you've buggered it.
Just increase the cardio if possible, to compensate. Maybe skipping, or teaching your hound to do sprints .
At least, walk more.

What often helps: bend over at the waist, let your upper body and arms just hang freely. Point your bum to the rear, as for squats and keep your weight on your heels.

BetsyBell · 05/03/2014 07:07

I love this thread! Thank you for all the ideas bigchoc and errol Grin

I do attempt pull ups when I'm at the park - just not been very often lately due to older kids and perpetual winter rain!

ErrolTheDragon · 05/03/2014 08:46

Shit. I hate skipping. Think the path I can run on is still a mudbath. The dog always does alternate sprints and rests anyway if I take him running, he sits looking like this Hmm for a while and then catches up with me on the way out. On the way back runs ahead and waits for me to catch up. Oh well, weather ok, DH just come into the office we've decided to go for a walk.

Its not bad, I can touch my toes, raise legs etc but would be foolish to push it.

MrsFlorrick · 05/03/2014 20:33

Another day another session of Ripped in 30. Grin

I really do want to be Ripped so I'm going for it.

Wombles. Sorry. I thought you were looking for a workout to do at home!

If you love gymming and find it motivating then don't change!!!

I am only championing JM because its the only way I can get a consistent workout and I've found her DVDs to really work. That's all.

Bigchoc. Thrown any hunks around lately?? Wink