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Fasting / 5:2 diet

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge


WARNING:
If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.
=====================================

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:
  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.


HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:
  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown

and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:
  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low


Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs
  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.


Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:
  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)


+Press ups
  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.


++Squats
  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.

-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes.
-For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward
-Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.


CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

- For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.


++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.


Start with these classes if available:
  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins


======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links:
52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise
GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis
GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness
LeanGains Protocols : Leangains
MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome
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OP posts:
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BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 21:44

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Thread closed
Please go to the new 52ExerciseThread2

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 21:44

Thread closing ....

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 21:43

Thread closing ....

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 21:43

Thread closing soon

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ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 20:15

Glad you've clarified that, I'm sure I've seen them in one of the online HIIT routines and thought it sounded risky.

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 19:28

ATGs should always be done slowly, to avoid injury.

For fast bodyweight squats in an HIIT or Tabata routine, it is safest not to bring bum below knee level.

Ignore trainers who say otherwise: they are too gung-ho and have no idea anout creaky middle-aged joints.

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ErrolTheDragon · 28/03/2014 18:39

BC - The ATGs don't hurt but I do hear a slight creak! Reminds me to oil myself (ie take a cod-liver oil cap which I often forget). I'm doing some slowly so I can make sure form is right, rather than trying to do them quick for HIIT type thing.

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/03/2014 17:14

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ALERT: we have a new 52ExerciseThread2

I added new info to the OP, but condensed loads, so much shorter

Thread closing soon

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 23:32

Errol Arse To "Grass" is a typical USA exaggeration. Your bum shouldn't go lower than then ankles. It does need to be well below the knees.

Also, whether ATG or anything else, never perform an exercise that causes pain in the knee joint, as distinct from ordinary muscle pain.

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 23:10

Wombles Don't exercise if you don't feel well.

Intense exercise especially can hammer your immune system and worsen your illness.
Also, you are more likely to have an accident, e.g. trip over or drop a barbell.

Don't fast when ill, unless you have no appetite. Just listen to your bod: eat healthy food, if hungry. Don't force yourself to eat if not hungry.
Do NOT eat any junk or drink alcohol.
Drink lots of water.

I know you have found articles that say fasting can help illness, but forcing yourself to fast when your body is screaming for nutrients is a BAD idea.
Some people on these threads have felt worse forcing FDs when ill.

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 21:15

Michael Mosely's Fast Fitness book: Routines in a Few Minutes

For great fitness & fat-burning benefit, do up to 3 FF sessions per week.

Possible exercises: running, stair-running, stationary bike, cross-trainer, swimming, rowing machine.

Routine 1:
.Warmup for 1-4 mins, until you feel ready
.20 sec burst 100% effort, at a level where you can't do another 2 secs.
.about 2 min gentle exercise to recover
.another 20 sec burst at max intensity.
.final recovery period of at least 2 mins

Routine 2:
. Do 5x 60 secs at 90% capacity, with 90 sec recovery periods in between.

Routine 3:
FatBurner - Only practical on a stationary bike:
. Set resistance very high, so you can just pedal
. Brief warmup 1-4 mins
. Repeated intervals of 8 secs max speed, with 12 secs low speed recovery
. Start by doing the intervals for at most a total of 5 mins (even 1 min) but build up the time.
Very fit folk can eventually do say 15 mins
. Brief cooldown 1 min

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ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 19:57

Lilliput, you'll get more traffic on the main thread - there's a couple of people there just successfully got back on the wagon. I'm sure you can too. Can you have a bath and an early night maybe? If I felt like that I'd have a cup of tea with millk (even if that pushed me a little over the 500) - something soothing like that.

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Lilliput · 27/03/2014 19:36

I am really struggling today.
I fell off the fasting wagon a bit whilst on annual leave. I pushed my self destruct button and have over eaten the last couple of weeks with half hearted fasting days.
I feel crap today. Banging head despite drinking plenty and totally starving ALL day. I had a gammon steak and plenty of veg an hour ago and now totally ravenous.

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BigChocFrenzy · 27/03/2014 19:30

Sorry, Errol, you've baffled me.
Confused
I can't think how to do Australian pullups at home. I always use a bar at the gym.
Can you sneak into the school or piblic playground after the kids have gone, so noone sees you ?

Could your DH build a small climbing frame, with different horizontal bars, in your garden ?

Anyone else have any pullup ideas for Errol ?

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Miffytastic · 27/03/2014 17:08

I'm not exercising til I feel better Wombles - weird chesty /aches and pains going on. I am not sure about if fasting will make things worse but I found I didn't want to eat much the day before yesterday anyway(most unusual for me)

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womblesofwestminster · 27/03/2014 16:42

So, could exercise make things worse? Is there any evidence that fasting could also make things worse? I've been managing to ADF as normal.

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ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 16:36

I'd have thought it was better to rest and get well soon. Maybe get a walk in the fresh air?

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MazzleDazzle · 27/03/2014 16:35

I'd give it a rest today Wombles and see how you feel tomorrow.

Other than the dreaded lurgy, how are things anyway?

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womblesofwestminster · 27/03/2014 16:30

Ugh, I've got the lurgy. Pounding headache, runny nose and feels like I'm swallowing razor blades :(

Is it advisable to exercise in this condition? I didn't go to the gym for my usual class yesterday but missing two days in a row seems too over-indulgent Confused

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ErrolTheDragon · 27/03/2014 12:40

If Earslaps is around, those about ATG squats... I looked at BCs links and turns out my problem was just trying to go a bit further than my body geometry allows. . I can reach the grass, just not get my butt in the mud. Grin

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MazzleDazzle · 27/03/2014 09:34

Went to the gym last night. Was really looking forward to it as there's an instructor on hand, so thought I'd get a good work out. Unfortunately the instructor was sick and so we were left to our own devices.

Each machine takes up a lot of space and is very expensive, yet only works a tiny percentage of your muscles! In the end a group of us worked-out together on the mats. Much more effective!

That reminds me: this morning my DD and I both practised a 'crab'. Couldn't quite manage it before, but now we both can!

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ErrolTheDragon · 26/03/2014 23:19

I'd really like to try those Australian reverse pull-ups but I can't find anything at an appropriate level strong enough. Anyone found a way to improvise in a normal house? (shy of fooling around in the playground)

On the shred thread, someone recommended an abs exercise called the Stomach Vacuum. What do you reckon? Seems like it might be useful and (unlike some) not liable to strain backs etc.

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BigChocFrenzy · 25/03/2014 20:26

For anyone looking for a thorough Strength / Resistance Routine:

1 day each per week for "Pull, Push, Legs"
For each exercise, do say 5 sets of 5 reps OR 3 sets of 8 reps
Rest 1-2 mins between sets

Pull

  • Deadlift
  • Bentover row
  • "Australian" reverse pull-up


Push
  • Press-ups
  • Standing military press
  • Bench press


Legs
  • Arse to grass bodyweight squats
  • Lunges with dumbbells
  • Seated or standing calf raises with dumbells
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ErrolTheDragon · 21/03/2014 13:26

B&W - you'd probably loosened the lid for her. Or maybe her hands were stickier. Wink

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BigChocFrenzy · 21/03/2014 11:53

Overhand is the classic pullup, whereas underhand are the chin-ups which work the biceps more.
Chins are usually easier to do, also less likely to make mistakes in form.

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