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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
MrsFlorrick · 09/03/2014 22:47

I'm renaming the ATG squats to Bum Breakers. Ouch.

Earslaps. You know Ripped in 30, week 3 where you do squat jacks, duck walk and all those other squat based exercises? Yes I am doing that ATM and Bigchocs bum breakers. Oh the pain! Grin

It's already working though. I tried some of my old bikinis on again this morning (last week my arse looked disasterous in them) and there was massive improvement in just a week.

I need to work on my abs too. But it's not easy. Two nearly 10lbs DC and 2 x 6 stone + weight gain and loss again, does not make for a pretty stomach! Confused I do think its the one part I will not be able to fully or even partially reclaim. Sad
I'm sure you know what I mean.

MrsFlorrick · 09/03/2014 22:50

Oh and add two CS to the stomach mess. I suppose I should
Just suck it up and buy one of those old lady miracle suit
Swimsuits for the beach and an
Old fashioned granny girdle and be done with it....

But I just cannot accept it (stamps foot) and besides the girdle will look wrong under the leather trousers. And the miracle suit won't go with my Fendi sandals. Sigh. Oh the dreadful
First world problems I suffer. Wink

EarSlaps · 09/03/2014 23:04

I think we all worry more about what we look like than others do iyswim. I always panic about what I look like in a bikini but then I see other people with saggy tummies or wobbly thighs and realise it's not the end of the world if I have stretchmarks or a bit of wobble. It's all about confidence I think, and toning up does help the confidence.

Even models don't have model figures considering how much things are airbrushed.

God I hate those bloody duck walks- look easy but they kill!

EarSlaps · 09/03/2014 23:06

I have to wear a bikini or tankini anyway- despite being only 5ft6 I have a strangely long body so swimsuits give me a serious wedgy!

MrsFlorrick · 09/03/2014 23:07

Yes. Very true. That said a week of duck walks squat jacks and bum breakers and it look soooo much better. Smile

Yay for JM. It's been a game changer for.

Breadandwine · 10/03/2014 00:09

My HIIT is 3 sets of 10 times thrashing backwards and forwards across the small pool we have access to, with a minute's rest in between. Takes me 31-33 seconds (PB 30 secs). Then, for my cardio, I run as fast as I can 100 times round the pool - takes me around 12 minutes 30 (PB 12.08).

Remembering my second set of press-ups are always easier than the first, I thought I'd go for a record number in one minute again tonight. So I did my first set of twenty, then planked for 1 minute, did my first set of pull-ups and rested for 1 minute.

Then I went for it. Once again I got to 28 and had to have a rest for a couple of seconds - and then got up to 33 before the pinger went off.

(No squats until my knee is 100%.)

Quite pleased with that - now my goal is 60 press-ups in one minute by the summer holidays. I'd love to take on my super-fit son and beat him. (Of course, I won't tell him we're in a competition! Wink)

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2014 20:08

Go for it, B&W, surprise your super-fit DS and tell us about it !

ATG Squats
Wimps ! You lot should try doing sets with 20kg on a big barbell, arms fully stretched above head.

I bet Tip does them on a BOSU or on 1 leg
Wink
Remember:

  • Keep weight on your heels
  • Keep abs tight all the time
  • Bring arms forward
  • Initial movement should keep your bum pointing rearwards.
  • Some folk may have insufficient strength in the thighs. So, build up with ordinary squats using heavy barbells / dumbbells
BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2014 20:16

ATG-Video
WrittenAdvice

TalkinPeace · 10/03/2014 20:42

Bigchoc
I do indeed do those squats on the bosu ... but I do the yoga version which involves lifting the arms to vertical over your head and they stay there till you get all the way down, and back up again
they hurt!

I've also been doing the proper version of chattarunga with the arms like this media2.onsugar.com/files/2011/12/50/2/192/1922729/a15bf5975303f555_1207_low_plank_chattarunga.preview.jpg
it hurts

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2014 21:13

Ah, I do the vertical arms, but on the floor, holding my 20kg+ dumbbell instead of balancing on a BOSU. Different taste in bums
Smile

MrsFlorrick · 10/03/2014 21:15

Another JM session and some bum breakers today.

Amazed I did it really given how tired I am (DS has a cold and kept me up last night).

Yes Bigchoc you're mega strong. I've said this before, I am quite weedy. Always have been. Never been able to lift heavy objects.
But get me in the water and I'm super agile and fast and I have serious endurance.
I'm not into running as I always found it tedious but when forced at school I was always the top runner.
Nothing to do with being tall as everyone else were also similarly tall. What I'm saying Bigchoc is that I can out run you and out swim you any time. Essentially, you'd have to catch me first WinkGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2014 21:15

Ooh, I hold that funny plank sometimes, when I want to work my arms more in plank. I didn't realise it was a yoga pose.
Yippee, I can do some yoga !

BigChocFrenzy · 10/03/2014 21:22

MrsF I can sprint very fast. Your long legs are a serious advantage though. Also, I think I'd slow down massively after 100m.
So, depends how far away you are when you try to run from me.
Smile
In the water, there is a tremendous amount of powerful splashing ..... and very little forward progress ! I learnt to swim like my old labrador, very stylish dog-paddle.
Smile
I can't put my face in the water or my contact lenses swim away and i'm damn near blind without them. So, I look seriously weird, swimming.
You'd leave me far behind.

Breadandwine · 11/03/2014 00:45

Bugger! I've just started - in the last 5 hours - to come down with a cold, so no exercise tonight. Hope it disappears as fast as it came on, I'm supposed to be teaching at a children's centre Wednesday morning - a session which has already been cancelled twice due to the floods!

You asked about my perception of my new muscles, back along, BC - well, it's taken a while, but I can definitely notice more muscly thighs and forearms. And I'm finding it quite a bit easier to move my 60lb 5-gal beer bucket around nowadays.

I'm quite excited, really - I've only been doing body weight exercises for just over 3 months and kettlebell exercises for just over 2. Who knows where I'll be in 12 months time?

I wouldn't have described myself as 'weedy', exactly, MrsF, but I've never had much upper body strength. Maybe it'll work for you.

MrsFlorrick · 11/03/2014 12:16

BigchocGrinGrin

I could probably outrun you over distance. I am weedy sort of a person but endurance I have in abundance.

Prefer to use it swimming though. Running has always bored me.

Breadandwine. Wink It's just me that's weedy. I'm happy to acknowledge it too. I'm obv not totally weedy as lug increasing heavy DC around etc. but at push up time I can tell my arms are not up to much.
It's not my shoulders or upper arms. They're strong. It's my lower arms and wrists.

Not done my JM yet today. Later on after DC dinner I think. Tired again. More insomnia so I don't want to lose the momentum by working out now and ending up collapsing before I've put the DC to bed.

JoJoMojito · 11/03/2014 13:45

Hello. I'm looking for a bit of advice about lifting. My current routine is done at home twice a week after running. I do 6 reps each of the following moves one after the other (ie a superset) then rest & repeat for a total of 3 sets. All with a barbell with 5kg x 2 (plus the bar but don't know how much that weighs):

Deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts, bent over rows, power clean, front squats, military press, back squats.

Then press-ups and planks.

I am increasingly comfortable with this weight apart from military presses which are still a real struggle. How should I progress? Add more sets? Or increase weight? I imagine increasing weight is better for my aims of increasing strength / fat burning, not muscle hypertrophy. If so, what sort of weight should I be aiming for for each move?

Grateful for any suggestions Smile

womblesofwestminster · 11/03/2014 14:28

I could probably outrun you over distance.

Sod distance. HIIT is where its at!

BigChocFrenzy · 11/03/2014 15:47

JoJo Increase the weight. Muscles are good for health & fitness.
Smile
Buy more weight rings for your bar.
1st Target: Build up to 20kg total on the bar for squats and lower back, 10 reps.

To avoid injury, I recommend everyone not to lift bars with more than bodyweight, unless they become very expert.

However, bodyweight exercises like pressups, ATG squats, pullups, planks are fantastically good for strength-building and rarely cause injury.

FYI: For the large muscle groups, I usually do 4-5 sets of 2-8 reps. I put on enough weight so that the last rep per set is really tough.

I do sets of 30-50 reps calf raises and 20 squats on the leg press machine, because that is at 123kg and any higher might bugger my (57-yr-old) knees.
This is the only really useful machine, because my knees couldn't handle that weight standing. Your knees are probably less creaky !
Smile
I only occasionally work the smaller muscle groups and then I do 1-2 sets of 10-15 reps.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/03/2014 10:49

I'm back... did my JM ripped in 30 and then some inclined press-ups and triceps dips. Going to take it a bit cautiously. Bit fed up because I was progressing fairly well and now feel somewhat back to square one.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/03/2014 11:31

Welcome back, Errol.
Don't worry; after such a brief break, you'll be back to where you were within a week or so.
Google "Muscle memory" if you need reassurance.

ErrolTheDragon · 14/03/2014 10:44

OK all you exercise geniuses - can anyone point me to some additional core strengthening exercises which are totally back-safe to do instead of planks? The level of Ri30 I've just finished included a 30 sec extended arm plank and even just that was starting to feel a bit iffy, as were the side plank dips even though I erred on the side of caution and did them with bent lower leg.

TalkinPeace · 14/03/2014 12:28

Errol
I do lots on the swiss ball .... also look up mat pilates videos .... and some of the yoga stuff

but TBH you'll be safest going to a class with an instructor who can watch your posture and check your limits

ErrolTheDragon · 14/03/2014 12:44

TiP Thanks- while I'm sure you're right on the latter point (I can imagine things going very pear shaped if I tried a swiss ball without instruction) I don't know of anywhere/anyone suitable hereabouts and I'm scared of classes.

Anyone got any specific pilates/yoga dvd/youtube recommendations please? I have never done any of either so don't really know where to begin looking.

TalkinPeace · 14/03/2014 12:51

Errol
Are you on FB?
Just that there are several yoga groups that post videos - from which you can find youtube channels such as this one
www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL508C30656B253DBF
she does ashtanga - vini is better for bad backs
eg

MazzleDazzle · 14/03/2014 15:25

Hello all,

Been a while since I've posted on here.

Still working out 4 x a week (3 x HIIT classes and 1 x circuit training). Started 10 weeks ago now and I really feel like I've had a breakthrough!

When I first started the HIIT class I was huffing and puffing and kept having to stop to catch my breath, but this week, for the first time I was actually able to keep up!

Also, at circuit training last night we finished with some yoga poses (can't remember the name!), but the aim was to get your heels flat on the floor. After weeks of thinking this was impossible, last night I did it with ease! Grin

I feel fitter than ever.

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