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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 33 - Counting down to Christmas (and NOT thinking about the impending chocapocolaypse. Yet)

999 replies

BetsyJingleBells · 16/12/2013 08:21

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
ChristmasPudding6 · 27/12/2013 18:25

Bssh well done on your FD

Betsy well done on your eating/reduced appetite NSV. Never though I'd ever say this, but I think my appetite is changing for the better too. Feels a bit surreal but I do sometimes refuse food when I don't really fancy it. However I also allow myself to have stuff just 'because' too. It really is (or will) all balance out Grin

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 27/12/2013 18:29

ChristmasPudding6 mine are 8, 10 and 12. I will implement more time off them once we are well enough and do something about being stuck in the house.

BetsyJingleBells · 27/12/2013 18:30

Pleasantly full up now, doubt I'm very far over 500 calories. Leftovers are all gone :)

(Quite wishing I'd had a slice of bssh's goose pie though Envy Grin)

So, I'm sure the sugar monster will rear her greedy head soon but she will be out of luck as I am feeding her nothing!

mttum Good to hear from you and well done for maintaining, despite the emotional turbulence - pretty impressive actually Flowers

OP posts:
DinoSnores · 27/12/2013 18:35

betsy, it would out me to direct you to my thesis and papers that I've published on the subject but bigchoc has condensed things nicely. When I'm back at home from my PILs, I'd be happy to link to a few of the important articles if anyone would find that interesting.

Not a FD today, although we got one slice of bread each, a slice of ham and some salad at lunch so I am rather hungry. DH and I are abandoning the DC with the PILs and going out for a rare meal out tonight so it will be lovely to catch up with him! Doesn't feel like we've properly chatted for a few weeks as we've been so busy!

BetsyJingleBells · 27/12/2013 18:39

Christmaspudding It's hard to get used to after a lifetime of being able to pretty much shovel in any amount of food.

Looking back at my food diary earlier I realised it only took a month of 5:2 (and 7lb loss) to make huge differences to my appetite compared to 15 months of mindful and healthier eating with 2.5 stone loss.

Being able to say "no" to food is an important one - obvious really but an oddly difficult lesson to learn for many of us! So a NSV for you too :)

OP posts:
BetsyJingleBells · 27/12/2013 18:43

Yes please Dinosnores! I love the science of it all despite not being brainy enough to understand it all - my biology A level at least means I vaguely understand what I'm reading Grin

OP posts:
BetsyJingleBells · 27/12/2013 18:47

Just realised you've said the PILs have basically fed you 1 slice of bread and ham dino! At least you'll be appreciative of your meal out - have fun :)

OP posts:
BsshBossh · 27/12/2013 19:49

My experience regarding appetite control tallies with Betsy's: 12 months of calorie control dieting (with a 3 stone loss) made me aware of normal portion sizes but didn't reset my appetite at all; just a few months into 5:2 and I discovered that my appetite had limits!

21 hour LOF complete! Now to eat (more than 500 cals undoubtedly but hey, it's still Christmas chez Bssh).

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 27/12/2013 22:23

Betsy Your Biology 'A' trumps my O Level, which was early 1970s, so "dino" level anyway !

DinoSnores If this is your field, I would really appreciate a list of the most reliable and relevant refs (you can always quietly slip in a couple of yours !).
Xmas Smile
I'm very interested in how exercise, nutrition, metabolism, body fat, gender and age all interact and affect health. In particular in IF, HIIT and the hormesis benefits of both. There are insufficient scientific human IF studies - I've ordered Dr Varady's new book in hope.

From Leangains & similar lifting sites, I'm not the only one to find this:
I do HIIT and medium heavy lifting, which seem to have interacted with IF to improve body composition rather than weight loss (starting from healthy BMI and quite a lot of muscle already).
I wonder if my muscle gain alongside fat loss is maybe due to Choc Frenzies not having a weekly calorie deficit ?
Hmm

whatawonderfulworld · 27/12/2013 23:08

Thanks DinoSnores and BsshBossh. This is a lovely encouraging thread. Glad to hear that the irritability on fast days won't last forever!

How do you all manage family mealtimes on FDs? I love cooking and food, not sure if I can handle sitting at the table while everyone else eats...but have always tried to encourage family mealtimes and all that goes with that, so can't really avoid it either?

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 27/12/2013 23:18

Toffee
It is recommended that everyone (not just DCs) stop using laptops, tablets or other electronics at least an hour before bedtime.
These gadgets stimulate the brain; also their strong light reduces melatonin, which is necessary for sleepiness.

EarSlaps · 27/12/2013 23:19

Wonderful- if you try to minimise what you eat before dinner then say 400 cals allows you plenty of normal meals, just without the carb element. So chicken breast or fish with tons of veg/salad, stir fries without noodles (or with miracle noodles), healthy curry with cauliflower rice instead of normal rice, hearty soup (plus bread for the rest of the family). For lunch I have a miso soup or hot bovril in a bowl, or a boiled egg and tons of salad, pickles etc. Then I'm eating and sitting down but not having many calories.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 27/12/2013 23:44

WonderfulWorld
On FDs, most of us concentrate on protein and veg.
If you do the cooking, then serve these in separate dishes to the sauces, starches (potatoes, pasta, rice, bread etc) for non-fasting family or guests. You should soon acquire the self-discipline to take appropriate portions of protein and veg, while avoiding the high calorie dishes, especially dessert.
Also, your family will get used to your twice weekly habit.

If you visit family or friends, it is usually easy to concentrate on veg.
If you visit a restaurants, try to check their dishes on mfp in advance, to decide what to order.

For special occasions of course, you can move your FDs to other days of the week - this WOE is very flexible and fits in with normal life.

hopefulgum · 27/12/2013 23:54

Yesterday's fast day started really well, despite my baking a beautiful ham in the morning for the picnic lunch. I made up a big container of vegies to nibble on at lunch time, but then I succumbed and had a couple of pieces of ham, which probably wasn't too bad, and then I decided I'd do a mini fast instead. But then we went back to SIL's holiday house and they cracked open the cider and the 50 flavours of jelly-beans.... You know how the story goes now, don't you...it all ended with a bowl of vanilla and mango icecream topped with sugared peanuts and raspberry sauce...Grin Oh dear.

Luckily this WOE means I have no need to feel guilt, and will endeavour to do a proper fast day tomorrow.

I hear a lot of you talk about LOF. I haven't done that - I usually have a light lunch - vegie soup or vegie stir fry. Is it easier to stick to LOF til the evening meal?

I wasn't going to get on the scales til next Friday, but this morning I snuck a peak, and it wasn't great, but not too bad. An increase of 1 kg, but it shouldn't take to o long to sort that.

It really is very difficult to stick with a healthy WOE when there's so much Christmas and celebration food around. It would take a will of iron, and I sadly don't have one of those.

Not fasting today as I'm planning a long swim and will probably be having another picnic with Dsis and her children at the park today....

Bssh, I really hope that if I stick with 5:2 my appetite will learn to have limits too. It frustrates me that I can't stop at one helping when something tastes really good. I'd love to have better control over that.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 28/12/2013 00:04

mtum It's nice when people return with updates.
Well done for managing to maintain, despite the other issues in your life.
I hope 2014 is easier for you.

postmanpatsreindeer · 28/12/2013 00:39

Waves at mttum well done on maintaining despite the hurdles.

bssh The Goldfinch audiobook kept me entertained through many miles on the treadmill! Hope you enjoy it too. I'm on Mo Farah's autobiography now. I'm not sure whether I'm inspired by someone who can run 5k in barely 13 mins or simply flabbergasted.

MelanieCheeks · 28/12/2013 07:12

Mo's speed is astonishing, isnt it! I'm getting ready for my weekly parkRun today, but 27 mins is my target time.

Later on, I shall be seeking a hula-hoop in the sales. What were the recommendations - weighted but not studded? Is the Davina one from Argos too light?

BsshBossh · 28/12/2013 07:27

After yesterday's 2nd fast of the week I've lost 1 lb since last week. Very pleased as a. It's my lowest ever weight and b. I ate around 1000 cals at the end of yesterday's 21 hour LOF.

EarSlaps · 28/12/2013 09:00

BigChoc- sent you a pm asking for your vast expertise on another thread Smile.

Melanie- yes, weighted but not studded would be my recommendation. I've got the other one from Argos, I've heard the Davina one is a bit rubbish as too light and too small. Therefore it would be harder to get started on it but you might be able to do it with practice (I taught myself to use a tiny unweighted children's hoop).

postmanpatsreindeer · 28/12/2013 09:44

Well done bssh - good work for Christmas week!

ChristmasPudding6 · 28/12/2013 09:55

Well done Bsssh on ur SV. I also managed a 21 hour LOF but prob had 1000 cal dinner (half of that was pudding!) so if I do the same today then I will have a good cal deficit can eat as I want on Sunday before a proper fast day on Monday. And pleased to say 3 of my 6lb gain have now vanished. I pretty much wee'd for Britain yesterday so I guess a lot of it was water retention.

ChristmasPudding6 · 28/12/2013 09:57

Toffee I can't imagine how I'm ever going to cope when my three get to that age. Barely coping now and everyone tells me it gets harder!?!??!

I hope u r feeling better today.

BetsyJingleBells · 28/12/2013 10:02

Bssh! Lowest ever weight?! Post-Christmas?! Wowee! Flowers and [admiration] - I am seriously in awe Grin

I took my expanding wobbly thighs out for a run (/walk) this morning. The cold air has made me feel a bit headachey but hopefully a bit of rehydration will sort that out.

I've got to do a bit of a shop today as the kids are out of cereal and the cats' supplies are running low so I think it might be a seafood kind of day. Probably had enough meat to last me a while - fancy a bit of zingy salad with prawns, ginger and lime and peppery leaves.

OP posts:
BetsyJingleBells · 28/12/2013 10:08

I'm not weighing in until January - for now I can tell by the level of thigh jiggle how much I need to sort out!

The next thread will mark my 1 year anniversary of 5:2 so just realised that 15th Jan should be my target point for getting back on track and hopefully smashing my weight record.

Ooh incentive, I like it!

OP posts:
ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 28/12/2013 10:50

Morning all Smile

Still poorly Sad and my asthma is really bad today but we are going to PIL now for an hour. Will read everyone's posts when I am back.

Hope everyone is okay.

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