The 5:2 thread number 32 - We can eat it tomorrow: toffees, toffee sponge or even toffee sausages!

[TurkeyAtYuleHoHo]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Morning everyone. Had some very interrupted sleep. Other 2 kids were woken up and started demanding milk, water and general attention too. Then DD decided to wake me early for breakfast and refused to go quietly back to her room.

We seem to be an unusual household. Most families have been having this bug one after the other but DS2 had it nearly 4 weeks ago, I had it two weeks ago and now DS1 has it. We must be catching it from school and not from each other. V bizarre. Just DD to go, though she was off school this week for another virus with high temp and cold symptoms. Urgh. Really messes up my work when this happens but that's life for all of us here. At least I am forced to remain at home and will get a few bits done.

Well done Baloo on 36 hours. Its easier than you think as you can always get an early night which helps the final few hours fly by.

And well done Duckyfuzz. I rarely stay within my TDEE but that will be why my weight loss is very slow. But then I am more interested in NOT gaining weight than being in a rush to get to goal. This allows me to scoff pouch bag sizes of giant buttons all to myself without the guilt. NSV this is improvement to the volume I scoffed before (4 packs of chocolate bars or 2 pouches a day when they were on offer at £1 a day!!). But it's never a problem on FDs.

Well done Bssh on your SV.

Gah!

Can I have a 34hrs LOF victory please?

DH made me a lovely coffee with sugar and milk and I was half way through it before I remembered I had 2hrs to go

But. . . That was really easy, hunger pains (whilst not pleasant and I don't relish them) are now pangs.

I needed a grip wrt appetite and eating, and I think I've found it!

Bssh - very jealous well done

Delighted for you Bssh that's an excellent start to the weekend! You must be thrilled.
Did a 1 hour brisk walk interspersed with a couple of wanders through early opening shops, reckon I burned off a portion of my 300 cal brekkie. Now for the 'fun' part of my work thing...sigh

High five bennettgirl half way through a cup of milky sweet coffee is prob still a lof technically! Will just make those last two hrs harder.

Well done bssh. Feel inspired to try another today myself.

Off to bed to push through desire for breakfast, having just finished night shift.

Well done bssh and bennettgirl! Feel inspired to try again myself. It does seem to make your appetite smaller.

minifingers, make sure you are eating a nutritious diet all month long, good iron and vitamin intake to help your body cope with the gushier days. Ultimately, fasting will not effect you if you're in good health generally. Certain times of the month can make fasts harder though, I seem to feel hungrier when due on.

What happened there? Thought that first post had disappeared .

Thanks for both posts, peplum :-D

BennetGirl snap! I too caved in at 34 hours with a milky coffee (and a bowl of muesli with milk). Heavenly! But no snacking for me so that's it until lunch. Anyway, 3 NFDs now including a big 70th birthday bash on Sunday. I can eat and enjoy with absolutely no guilt.

BigChoc thanks so much for that Nature link. The Weight Watching chart was a tiny bit concerning for me as it suggested that, as I'm in my 40s now, I should settle at an optimum BMI of 22 and, in my 50s at 23. This is fine of course but it makes me wonder whether it's worth now aiming for 20/21 BMI; whether I should stop losing weight now as I'm 22 BMI. What do you think?

Thanks Peplum. I will begin wit a cup of milky coffee followed btw fried yams and omelet.
My 37.5 LOF is officially over.

Just re-read my "concerns" ref Weight Watching chart. I think I'm splitting hairs . Ignore me everyone.

Bssh. Well done!!

The weight BMI chart thingy doesn't take account for different builds etc.

And if you look at the age 40 curve (mine too!) then you'll notice that its virtually flat between 20 BMI and 23ish. So I would go with your build and what feels good to you.

And obv look at your body fat % too as once you hit 40, it shouldn't really be below 23% apparently. Very different to if you're in your 20s and you can go much lower ie to 17% if you're female. Different for men obv.

I am liquid fasting until tonight. It's my new Friday thing. LOF from 6pm Thursday night until circa 8pm Friday night. This way my Friday night frenzy will still be well within TDEE. And I can still have a really enjoyable night with biscuits and cheese and wine
Can't wait.

Good luck to the other fasters and well done to the LOFs just finishing now.

Done ok with fasting this week. Not lost anything but clothes feel looser.
It's good considering H has been away (and an arse when at home ) and DC have both been up every single sodding night. It's amazing I've not eaten the content of my local Waitrose and put on 2 stone really!

H is out again tonight with his friends . I sound whiny and bitter however I have had one lousy night out with a friend in over 4 years. And I can count in two hands the number of times he has got a babysitter and taken me out. Yet he is out on a regular basis. It's pissing me off. It's also the tiredness of a long week talking here.

Am planning expensive wine and cheese later. And may his hangover ache when I get the DC to jump up and down on his tomorrow at 6:30am!

TMI Alert!

Scales are uninspiring today (gone up) but unsurprising as I haven't managed to erm completely clear the decks all week

Not entirely sure what the problem is as there's been plenty of liquid, veg & fruit and lots of fibre in my diet, not much in the way of carbs and fairly minimal protein.

Just made a very strong, small, sweet coffee to see if that gets things, well, moving. I have 45 mins before I have to go to work…

Well done on your loss bssh You must pretty damn close to that goal now.

Well done to all the LOF successes too - bennettgirl 34 hours is definitely a success and technically your sweet milky coffee is liquid anyway

Hugs to the downtrodden MrsF - May all your children bounce merrily and early on the hungover H!

its December. that means there's never a time too early to start drinking right? kids driving me nuts.

mrsf I think it may be time to remind mrF that whilst you're a sahm you are also his wife and not a slave. he needs to buck up and either let you go out sometime or take you out.

Ok quick question. Are any of you combining 5:2 with another 'diet' system to lose weight?

I did WW Discovery plan a few years ago and lost lots of weight but I lost the most doing what was nicknamed the Wendy plan - alternating between very high point days and low point days. When I think about 5:2 dieting I can see that this was a kind of early version of this.

My thinking is that the points are very doable if you have extras over the week because of fasting days. I heard before that a point was roughly 40-50 cals. You might wonder why I would bother but I have 3 stone to shift just to get to BMI 25. Realistically I can live with BMI 27 as I look and feel good at that point. I don't want to go completely mad on my non-fasting days.

On old WW I can have 23 points a day which is 161 a week. My two fast days would take about 24 of these which leaves a very doable 27 points a day. Plus, because I'm at home more now I can just survive on low point soup and hot drinks when I need them.

It's a bit like calorie counting on the fasting days. Would it help?

Funnyfestive Lots of us tend to do 2 fast days (up to 500 calories), 3 'good' days, ie to within or less than TDEE, and 2 blow out days when anything goes. Seems to work around these parts!

Lots of us have shifted more than 3 stone here though - go check out the 5:2 Inspiration thread (linked in OP).

I'm feeling a little emptier now... I'm sure y'all wanted to know that

Thanks Betsy that may be the way to go - two v low days on 12ish points, a few days on 23 points and a couple of mega guzzler days when we get a takeaway or go out for a meal :)

Every time a longtime lurker is brave enough to come out I resolve to do it too - and this time I've finally, finally caught up with the threads (I have been reading since Thread 1, but discovered it about a month in, when I'd been 5:2ing for a couple of weeks, and have never been able to catch up in all this time!) Like so many others I have found the threads to be invaluable (informative, supportive, amusing, occasionally infuriating!) and I'd like to add my thanks to all those who have contributed and shared their experiences. I realise that my ways are very slightly unorthodox, so for the benefit of other lurkers, thought I might share, so that others can see the many possible variations in this WOL. I feel almost heretical when I say: I do not have scales and would never put myself through the horrors of a public weigh-in, so have no idea what my starting weight was, what it is now, or what my"ideal" should be. I have never used any calorie tracking system, do not have a clue what my BMI is and do not measure at all. I have however, come down from a tightish size 20 to a currently not-buying-anything-above-14 (and not making the mistake of buying many clothes again until I stop losing.) My loss has been slow and sustained and I'll just carry on until it stops. I recorded the original Horizon programme back in August 2012, and when I got around to watching it after a couple of weeks, just found it was something I thought I could do, started, and have never looked back. I have largely found it a painless process (apart from the headaches which I still get if I don't manage my water intake properly) and am happy to see this as a longterm thing. I think possibly because I have never weighed I think I avoid a whole lot of stress and have never failed or missed a fast day. I nearly always eat 2 small meals a day, 200 calories at lunch, usually fruit, because I craved it when I thought I couldn't have it (and it doesn't give me any problems in terms of making me hungry) then 300 in the evening. I can go through to the evening without eating but my extremely supportive DP, who has been doing this all the way with me despite not needing to lose weight, prefers to do it this way and I'm so grateful for the help that I'm happy to follow this pattern. I do 5:2 with the odd 4:3 if I've overdone it, or prior to and after a holiday. I've been fascinated by the way weight shifts in fits and starts - for example, my hands got thin overnight! Despite the fact that I put on handcream several times a day, one day I suddenly realised my hands were much slimmer, and I find new bony bits every so often, backing up the theory that weight loss follows its own path, which is anything but linear.

OK - apologies for this novel-length post (that's a lot of pent up 5:2ing wanting to burst out!) So erm, thanks, carry on, as you were.

Eatriskier. I honestly no longer know what to do about him/it/situation.

I guess the fact that I actually don't want him to take me out because then I'd have to talk to him says it all doesn't it!? Looks like point of no return has been and gone really.

It's a shame. I never imagined I'd end up like this. I worked hard on my education and later my career so I could avoid exactly this. And yet at the grand old age of 40, I find myself here.

If I manage to find a way through all of this with without living of a ton of cake and biscuits first then its officially a miracle.

Betsy! Yikes for you!! I hope ahem manage to clear the decks. Feel better soon.

MariaRossa wow what an inspirational post and so wonderful to hear from a long-termer. Please stay un-lurked and join us regularly so we can all benefit from your experience :)

Wow great going Mariarossa well done!!! Your right about th scales but I'm so impatient I need scales.

Bssh well done.

I am on fast day today I'm hungover so it could be difficult. Having hair done today though I hope it's ok to take a 6 week old along.

Afternoon all

Thrilled to bits at all the messages wondering where I am after my first ever 36 hour fast in case I passed out .

I can report I managed 35 hours at my first attempt. I only failed the 36 milestone because DS2 didn't want a crust in his packed lunch and I couldn't be bothered to put one slice back in the packet so thought I would have it for breakfast and forgot all about the time!!

Weigh in - 11 stone 3lbs so a pound lost since last weigh in so very happy and my scales tell me I am 37.1% fat but I haven't checked the chart as to what that actually means. Sounds bad .

Light just went in the lounge so can't see very well what I am typing so will say HELLO everyone and read back once we have lights again.