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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 32 - We can eat it tomorrow: toffees, toffee sponge or even toffee sausages!

999 replies

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 04/12/2013 09:32

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
BsshBossh · 11/12/2013 22:50

Turkey you realise cheese and chocolates/chocapocalypse have to feature in the next thread title don't you Grin.

BigChoc what do your fellow gymsters think about 5:2, IF and fasted training? I mean, they know you do it (I'm assuming) and can obviously see in you the blatant benefits.

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 11/12/2013 23:05

So should plyometrics Bssh....

Now there's a word! Xmas Grin

sudden explosive force

So does that mean your gob is plyometric BigChoc?

OP posts:
TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 11/12/2013 23:20

Bloody hell MrsF! - you'd better get the boys from Fort Knox round, before BCF kung foo kicks her way in looking for your stash!

Just imagine that frenzied maniac, tarzan swinging through your double glazing, foaming at her ninja masked mouth!!

Ooh a chill just ran down my spine!

(Wasn't looking for MrsF's stash btw! You've not been paying attention have you! There are bigger bounty's to be had here! meh heh heh heh!)

OP posts:
BetsyJingleBells · 11/12/2013 23:24

Hello! Busy day here :)

I'm not fasting tomorrow as I've got a Christmas do! I guess I might get 2 more in before the holidays start but I'm feeling like having a break so we'll see… I don't think I've missed a fasting day since August so that's pretty good going.

I tell you, if I ever need a bodyguard I'm going to hire badass bigchoc she's a bit scary Shock Grin

NND is out the window today as I had my first mulled wine of the season and now I have a tiny and divine single malt. Christmas spirit is here Xmas Smile

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 11/12/2013 23:39

Bssh **

5:2 / IF works so well because of the interval effect and stressing the body more than standard CR. I regard it as "Interval Nutrition".
Similarly, interval training is far more efficient than steady state, whether cardio or long sets of weights.

The interaction of interval nutrition and interval exercise has been optimal for me at least. I wonder what research is going on into whether / how these two boost each other. Leangains and other lifting sites generally scorn HIIT cardio because of aim comflicts with max lifting.

I recommend replacing your current cardio, which seems to be endurance, by a mixture of interval sprints, HIIT spin, skipping. You can work up to 60 mins per session, but start with say 10 mins total.
Intensity is key, not duration.
I do bodyweight exercises (pressups, deep squats, tricep dips) as well like this.

For weights, concentrate on barbells with the big muscle groups: squats, bentover row, chinups (start with assisted ones), deadlift / lower back. You can train smaller muscles like biceps if you have time, but they are automatically trained doing the main exercises.
Also, work up to several sets of 30 pressups and 30 tricep dips (arms behind on a step).

Do short sets of the heaviest weight you can safely manage, so 5 sets of 3-5 reps or 3 sets of 8-10 reps. So again, intensity rather than long sets.

It is not necessary to lift massive weights unless you are a competitive athlete. I dumped a body-builders' class because the trainer kept pushing us to lift what I considered too heavy and with insufficient breaks.
Lifting too heavy can damage joints, pelvic floor, even cause stroke / heart attack.
Lift enough to stress your body enough to improve it, but not to damage it.

Personally, I concentrate on HIIT spin, crossfit, boxing, so I only have time to lift fairly heavy once per week. I do:
-120kg on leg press ( to save my knees squatting)
-only 20 kg for deep squats (thighs parallel to floor)

  • 50kg lateral pulldown
  • 45 kg lower back raise (safer than deadlift)
  • 40 kg bentover row
All sets of 3 reps, except for squats where I do 10-15 reps.

Hope that long screed helps !
Xmas Smile

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 11/12/2013 23:51

Bssh

We will have to wait for peer-reviewed research by recognised scientists like Varady and Mattson. A Horizon program and our anecdotal successes won't bring widespread acceptance - too many professional reputations, including those of establishment medical doctors, are based on old theories.

The gym world still concentrates on the "eat 5-6 times per day, always breakfast" mantra, especially lifters. A few trainers are keen on Paleo, but fasting is associated with FDs, so I've kept quiet - I can't be bothered with arguments.

I privately told my boxing partner person and she didn't lecture me, but certainly didn't want to 5:2.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 12/12/2013 00:03

Kitchen closed after 300 cal LFD with fasted boxing.
Outdoor Christmas party tomorrow, so no breakfast and a small lunch, which may be egg salad and rice pud.

We can eat what we want, just not all the time

Turkey
"Plyometric" like someone's arse sharting !!
Xmas Grin
Betsy
I bodyguard for wages in chocolate only.
Xmas Smile
!! To all chocolate hoarders: be very afraid !!

MrsFlorrick · 12/12/2013 01:26

Turkey. GrinGrinGrin "Is your gob plyrometric" @ Bigchocsatemyreindeer. Actually p@ssing myself!!

Bigchocsatemyreindeer. Yeah??!! C'mon then. Lets see what you're made of. I've been working out with Jillian Michaels so I can dig deep and stuff so yeah watch out. (Opens up well in basement and Hides choc and cheese stash - see if you are brave enough to enter my well Bigchocsatemyreindeer? And if you think you are, did you not watch The Ring. And yes I'm a massive chicken and don't go near basement after dark, I send DH. If he is away I don't even go to the utility room after dark. Watch The Ring and you'll feel my fear of wells.....).

TheRaniOfYawn · 12/12/2013 06:45

Fast day for me. The kitchen closed at 10pm last night after an evening with lots of wine and pizza-flavoured salad (a bag of spinach, watercress and rocket with olives, tomatoes, Chorizo and fried red onions and peppers).

Time for some exercises. I'm going to do Arnie's 1% challenge on as it's quite easy and after a couple of months with no strength training whatsoever I want to start back quite gently.

BsshBossh · 12/12/2013 07:29

BigChoc Thanks :)

Right FD check in today. Let's do it fasters :)

BsshBossh · 12/12/2013 07:35

Rani is this the Arnie one percent challenge? Looks good!

BeyondTheLimitsOfXmasability · 12/12/2013 07:38

FD check in from me too. Banana and satsuma for breakfast, carrot, celery and houmous prepped for the rest of the day :)

postmanpatsreindeer · 12/12/2013 08:06

Good luck bssh and beyond and the rest of today's fasters. I did zero cals on Tuesday and will do another on Sat or Sun so I'm having NFDs in between.

bigchoc I've read your posts with interest but I'd still rather run for an hour than venture in the testosterone-dominated section of the gym!

postmanpatsreindeer · 12/12/2013 08:07

Ooh...and confession time...I think I may have started the chocolate shortage rumours due to the large quantities in my fridge Blush

Baloostika · 12/12/2013 08:22

FD check in, 16 hrs into my 36 LOF.
Bssh how u doing?

MrsFlorrick · 12/12/2013 08:23

Morning.

FD here and with a hangover.

I had several WineWineWine last night during present wrapping.

Hence drunken midnight rambling postsBlushBlush. Sorry Bigchoc. I made no sense (v drunk-not like me at all).

About to enter the school run zone. Wish me luck!

Baloostika · 12/12/2013 08:31

Postman what was ur zero cal day like. I used to do some couple of them each Mont when I was doing 16/8or 20/4. I usually have nothing, not even water for 24hrs. Am just curious to know what u do.

postmanpatsreindeer · 12/12/2013 08:50

baloo water or peppermint tea from about 8pm Mon til 8am Weds. Often accompanied by a 10k run on the fast day! Not this week though, I was distracted by children who wanted to bake (so I was fasting but DD made biscuits and I batch cooked spag bol. Luckily it tasted ok as I couldn't check it during construction!)

FunnyFestiveTableRunner · 12/12/2013 09:08

Thanks Turkey and TiP that's helpful. It will really help with my 'all or nothing' thinking when it comes to dieting in the past (you know the feeling - 'oh dear I had some cheese, I might as well just hoover up everything in sight now...' Hmm :o)

I finished 'normal' eating at 2pm yesterday. Had a tin of soup last night (Baxter's Healthy Choice Minestrone - delicious and 160 cals for the tin). Going to have some coffee, then a 300 cal late breakfast at 11ish. Out for lunch otherwise I would go until dinnertime. I may just have something light like soup but don't want to be restrictive and end up resentful. The fasting has been easier than I thought so far so I want to keep the 'positive mental attitude' to it all. If that means 23 hours on 500 cals, rather than 24 - so be it!

Good luck all fasters :)

rubbishfamily333 · 12/12/2013 09:13

Morning all fd for me today, I hope it goes well in my icy cold office with no heating ShockShock good luck to all that are fasting today Grin

somewherebecomingrain · 12/12/2013 09:49

Morning all.

Just can't keep up.

Had a Tuesday frenzy after my Monday Lof which involved 4 choc eclairs and glugs of cream from a carton. with each mouthful.

On Monday baby Somelet had decided to bf all day and refuse alternatives. I have worked out that as she weighs 2 st that's 1200-1400 cals. If my usual tdee is 2250 then that's potentially a 7,000 calorie tdee on Tuesday am.

Have decided not to be so silly and eat more on Fds.

Had a 1200 fast day yesterday and doing another today, so doing a semi 4:3.

somewherebecomingrain · 12/12/2013 09:52

Sorry for me me me. X

Baloostika · 12/12/2013 09:55

@ *Postman I have a cup Iraq two of coffee wit added skimmed milk during my 36 hrs but I plan on skipping the milk today and see how it goes. I last ate at 5pm Tuesday.
How often do u all LOFasters do 36 hr LF?
I love this WOE, it's so sustainable cos of its flexibility and that's the idea I have of exercise too, do what is sustainable and not what will wear u out in the shortest possible time.
I'd rather run at snail speed in one year than do vigorous exercises for only three months iykwim. That's my opinion anyways.

19 hrs gone already and 17 hrs remaining.
Thanks Bread and Wine for the countdown inspiration, lol.

FunnyFestiveTableRunner · 12/12/2013 10:14

Somewhere BFing is awesome for losing weight. The weight fell off me even though I was eating complete rubbish. I was my lightest in years. Unfortunately because I was eating rubbish weight piled back on as soon as I stopped. I felt like such an idiot. BFing plus being food aware = awesome calorie benefit! :)

We may TTC early next year and I was wondering whether this WOE has any impact on fertility? Also have any of you done any version of it in pregnancy (e.g. 1000 cal FDs instead of 500)? I had gestational diabetes and would be keen to avoid it next time. If IF is meant to help with blood sugar I was wondering whether it could help keep blood sugars balanced even in pregnancy.

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 12/12/2013 10:41

Morning All!

I have to just thank Inamerry - and no, not for the chocolate promise, but because you saved my fast day yesterday!

Last night I was feeling restless (in that loads to do but should prob stop now way) and I had massive urge to pour myself a baileys and break open a family sized bag of crisps to help me relax. Even though was fd!

Came on here and read your post saying... you had finished on 400 and that was your two for the week done.... It made me think - that could be me if I just make it a bit longer and go to bed soon without tv catch up sesh!

So I did! It worked and I am (cover your ears MrsF - well happy!) Your positivity shone out of post and it was contagious. So thanks! I am done now for week as well!!!

Bring me a mince pie and a Yule log! The kitchen is OPEN!!

MrsF I loved your drunken rambling! Xmas Grin

Though you've gone an done it now! Never reveal your weak spot to the enemy! She's probably out digging a well right now!

Rani you have just woken my stomach up with your Pizza Salad chat!! Yummy!

Just waiting to 'move' here before official weekly weigh in. I am finding this woe/wol a bit too good to be true atm. I love the fact that two strict days are cushioned by 5 normal days.
The best part being that my stomach really doesn't want to/nor can it manage to, pig out on all nfd.

Still like the odd splurge. But it is definitely all proportional. As my body is shrinking so is my greed!

Honestly all Newbies, stick to the programme and don't overdo the depriving or the nfd bingeing because this works!
I would say I follow a pretty middle of road/by rule book version of 5:2 and if I'm honest am on the lazy side and it is doing exactly what it says on the tin. Without misery!

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