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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 32 - We can eat it tomorrow: toffees, toffee sponge or even toffee sausages!

999 replies

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 04/12/2013 09:32

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
somewherebecomingrain · 11/12/2013 16:57

FD spiral. Egg, crusts, juice, walnut latte, chocolate, quiche, fudge.

No fail. It's a still fairly low cal 16:8.

Kitchen now closed. I can do a 20:4 tomorrow.

Baloostika · 11/12/2013 17:28

Eat that's very funny, I can imagine laughing and hula hooping.
Bsss we can do it!

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 11/12/2013 18:04

**

NOOOO !!! NOOOOO!!!

If there is a shortage of chocolate, things are going to get very nasty for those flabby avians with chocolate and tiny muscles, because they don't do their pressups.

[deeply menacing BigChoc stare eyeing up the choc hoarders]

I'll be back after boxing. This subject is not closed

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2013 18:06

I'll let ANY of you raid my stash of chocolate

sits back

OK, that's mean to newcomers

I do not eat chocolate Wink

Emmabryant123 · 11/12/2013 18:33

Failed.!
Breakfast 6am: porridge with banana and Nutella
Snack !!!! 10:30am: banana crunch yoghurt
Lunch 12:30pm: tuna sandwich with mayo and blacked pepper on brown bread bought from the van at work
Dinner : 6pm: pork chop, white rice and broccoli.
Going to ease back into 5:2 with a 16:8 tomorrow as I'm struggling.
Am buying a sandwich again from van- very healthy ones they do - made with their own fresh bread etc.

FunnyFestiveTableRunner · 11/12/2013 18:58

Getting confused with all this new lingo. What is a 16:8 or a 20:4? Are they the mini fasts I keep hearing about? And do they count as one of the 2 fast days or are they a bonus extra day?

Dotty342kids · 11/12/2013 19:01

TIP what was the gig?
Just sitting here working with my Cadbury Dairy Milk next to me. Yum, Yum, Yum. And I'm not sharing Grin

takingawhile · 11/12/2013 19:01

Hello everyone,

I posted on this forum and my reply posts redirected me to this one. I haven't quite got to the stage of eating toffee sausages yet but I am a self confessed emotional eater. If I'm by myself and surrounded by food, I eat it. Simples.

I said, I'm not sure if anyone read it, that I recently fasted for an operation. I felt great prior to the op, almost on a high, full of energy and I felt this must have been down to just not eating anything (the op was midday and I have usually polished off a lot of food by midday). I also noticed my dry, red blotchy skin looked better too. It could have been a fluke of course.

I decided I might see if I could do a modified fast for a day (I drank two large cappuccinos (skinny milk) during the day (so wasn't exactly a fast) and had a low cal but healthy filling supper. It wasn't as low as 500 kcal's, which I will aim for, I just wanted to check I wouldn't get a rebound "binge eat" urge following it. I also didn't want to make my emotional eating any worse.

I did find the following day I felt very tired in the morning though (however, I had to get up at 5 that day so that could have been the reason too- I am an 8 am girl usually!!).

I went back to normal ways of eating today and there were chocolate bars in the house and I ate them,,, I was bored. I think fasting helps my constant snacking, as I when I feel emotional food isn't an option! It's coping with the constant snacking on non fast days of course.

I would like to try the 500kcal fast, mainly because of the above but also I want to improve my energy, mood but also my skin. It sounds strange but as I said before my red blotchy skin looked better on the morning I fasted.

I just wanted to know if anyone has any answers/tips in relation to the following:

My part motivation is my skin, I wonder if anyone has a good fasting day meal that may also help the skin?

I find it hard to sleep when I haven't eaten much, especially if I haven't eaten carbs, does anyone have any advice in regards to fighting insomnia when fasting?

How do you find the motivation to do it doing the day?

Has anyone found it has helped improve their binge/emotional eating? or has it made it worse?

Best of luck to you all and it's wonderful reading success stories..!

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 11/12/2013 19:09

Thanks B&W. Why do MNHQ not tell us when they change things??

Maybe it helps those on phones?

ToffeeOwnsTheSausage · 11/12/2013 19:12

Thank you talkinpeace - so would Mon and Wed fast days one week and Mon and Thursday fast days the following week work okay? Is that enough of a change about to keep m body on its toes?

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 11/12/2013 19:38

comes onto thread looking suspiciously at InAMerry Xmas Hmm hmm name change just after "Ducky" promised me her chocolate share.....

FunnyFestive All you have to do regarding number:number is think the larger number (usually first) is the fast period, the smaller (usually second) is the eat period.

This is just the way a lot of fasters allow themselves an allotted window in which they can eat during a 24 hour period.

It gives the benefits of a mini fast during the non eating hours, and it also reduces the number of 'eating' hours which usually makes it easier to stick to tdee or 500 cal depending on whether a fd or not.

It can be incorporated into fd and nfd.

Any other number combinations, just think whether the total equates to 24hrs, a week, a fortnight. The smaller numbers in 24hr are usually eating time. The smaller numbers in week/fortnight are fasting days.

A mini fast is just a way of saying I am not doing a full on 500 cal fast today for whatever reason.... I have failed, not feeling well, not up for whole fast but want to be better than nfd.

It usually comes in at between 500-1000 cal. There is no rule to this, it has just become a thing on here.

Just remember everybody though, that doing mini fasts everyday would basically just be calorie deprivation and is NOT 5:2. It is also likely to result in a weight stall/gain than a loss.

OP posts:
ChristmasPudding6 · 11/12/2013 19:41

Wow whimsicalname. You look amazing in your party frock. And well done on reaching target!!!

BsshBossh · 11/12/2013 19:54

Just remember everybody though, that doing mini fasts everyday would basically just be calorie deprivation and is NOT 5:2. It is also likely to result in a weight stall/gain than a loss.

Exactly! I've not seen it here but on other forums some fasters use daily 16:8/mini fasts as an excuse to eat low calorie most days. This is not a wise thing to do in the longterm.

BsshBossh · 11/12/2013 20:05

Welcome takingawhile.

My part motivation is my skin, I wonder if anyone has a good fasting day meal that may also help the skin?
I started fasting early this year and as the months have gone by I'm drawn more now to whole, unprocessed foods than ever before. My skin is more radiant as a result I think. But I still have eczema issues - they never really cleared up.

I find it hard to sleep when I haven't eaten much, especially if I haven't eaten carbs, does anyone have any advice in regards to fighting insomnia when fasting?
I save all my calories for just before bedtime (easy for me because DH and I always eat dinner after 9pm due to his job). Going to bed on a full tummy helps but I still have some sleepless nights. If I sleep through then I'm wide awake around 5am. Fasting puts the body into a state of alert - it's normal.

How do you find the motivation to do it doing the day?
In the beginning my motivation was primarily weight loss (I was obese) and health (my family have all suffered avoidable age-related illnesses and I didn't want it to be me). Now I need no motivation to fast as it's part of my routine. But health benefits are still a motivating factor for me.

Has anyone found it has helped improve their binge/emotional eating? or has it made it worse?
Have never been a binger (controlled overeater, yes but not uncontrolled binger) or an emotional eater (I got fat simply because I love delicious food). But fasting has regulated my appetite so much that I can't even overeat (too much) without my stomach violently protesting.

TalkinPeace · 11/12/2013 20:13

Dooty
I was at the O2 and Ozzy was at his best!

takingawhile
welcome aboard : this is a very happy place

funnyfestive
all the complicated numbers are really our codes to ourselves to say
the kitchen is closed between meals
I do not eat breakfast (long term habit) so eat at noon and before 8pm : so 8 hours between which I eat and 16 hours when I do not

the MOST SIMPLE RULE
to get the whol thing on a roll is
NO SNACKING

eat at meal times and have NOTHING that needs chewing in between
simple
give it a go :-)

inamerrymuckingfuddle · 11/12/2013 20:47

Turkey you are still v welcome to my share of look the remaining chocolate in the whole wide world Xmas Grin had to name change for real life reasons sorry, had this one a few years ago and though it suited my current state!

Finishing on 400 today that's my two FDs done this week, yay! Weigh in tomorrow morning...

inamerrymuckingfuddle · 11/12/2013 20:49

Oops welcome to takingawhile I have gone from eating whenever and whatever I can to being very disciplined on fast days and within TDEE on non fast days during the week, then enjoying my weekends

inamerrymuckingfuddle · 11/12/2013 20:50

And oops again, posted too soon! Anyway, if I can do it anyone can so good luck!

EatriskierDrinkAndBeMerry · 11/12/2013 21:01

tip I'll do you a deal, you give me any chocolate you are given and you can have my cheese Xmas Wink

MrsFlorrick · 11/12/2013 21:55

Eatriskier. Is cheese running out too??!!!!??? Aaaaaahhhhh. Noooooo.

Waves to Bssh, turkey, Betsy, breadandwine, Bigchocsatemyreindeer, eatriskier, talkinpeace toffee and everyone. Sorry I've not posted much this week. I could lie and say it was DC nativity play and other Xmas and parental duties but actually I have been busy buying up warehouses full of chocolate in advance of the chocapocalypse. Wink

I'm selfish and not sharing my cheese and choc stash with anyone. (Locks doors and windows and hides from Bigchocsatemyreindeer).

Welcome takingawhile. Grin

Mini fasts are not for every day or even every week. It's for the times you intended to fast but went a little over. It's better for your head to call it a mini fast rather than a failure. More motivating.

Plus if you get to 750 cals during a FD, and call it a mini fast then you're more likely to stop and not scoff the content of fridge.

It also works if you had a non FD where you went enormously over TDEE and need to even things out so you have an extra mini fast. Ie lower on cals than a normal day but not quite a fast. Again it helps you feel more in control and less like a failure.

Obviously mini fasts don't have the full health benefits of proper 5:2 but if you're like me and needing to lose weight then it helps you along as it stops binging on food and stops you feeling like you failed.

It can also be used to ease your way into 5:2. When I started. There was no way I could do 500 cals. And it sounded too scary for me. But sub 1000 cals sounded ok so I started that. And worked towards proper 5:2.

When you first set out you need to help yourself along mentally and that is one tool. But it's not for every day.

TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 11/12/2013 22:08

I own a cheese factory. All kinds. In every country.

Just sayin'....

In fact I've got the 'rights' to cheese.

I patented it.

I could ban cheese for all except a certain priviledged few (taps nose and nods head in not what you know but who you know way)

OP posts:
TurkeyAtYuleHoHo · 11/12/2013 22:11

Chocapocalypse - inspired MrsF Xmas Grin Xmas Grin

I was tempted to whip out Chocaggedon earlier but ^ that is so much better!

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 11/12/2013 22:37

Back from boxing, with a definite swagger:
Xmas Smile

BsshBossh · 11/12/2013 22:44

Thanks BigChoc. Yep, I mix cardio (powerwalking/15% incline walking) with the weights. Strength and endurance are my foci. Can you tell me what kgs you do upper body weight stuff at (so I can benchmark)?

Thursday FD tomorrow. Will check in through the day.

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 11/12/2013 22:49

MrsF
Don't listen to that big gobbler trying to weedle choc out of you. The worst she can do is fly over and crap (or shart) on your windows and washing.

Locking doors and windows won't save you from my Choc Frenzy:
I train plyometrically, which means producing sudden explosive force, i.e. smashing into the MrsF chocolate vault.
Resistance is futile
Xmas Grin