The 5:2 thread number 31 - Getting healthier one day at a time.

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Helles
out of interest, do you have max-min thermometers in the house as the numberson heathing thermostats bear little relation to the actual temperatures in other rooms :-)

BigChoc that sounds like my kind of sandwich/topping. Chorizo, cheese, peppers and sundried toms! When I have a nibbles and wine kind of evening I love all those things with some gorgeous dense bread.

I really am going to have to get this sprouted brd. It sounds perfect! Bloat is what makes me avoid brd as much as poss, even though I love it, so if this does job without inflating me then I may just have to virtually kiss your feet!

Will try the olive oil lemon thing in morning? This isn't a cruel wind up is it??... Glad it's not up the bum as I'm not very good at handstands

Epic NSV btw. You must be chuffed to bits! Well done you - is that since NNN do you think, or started before??

Whimsical ..... come sit down, have a . Please don't apologise for having a whinge. If you apologise, then I'll have to and so will rest of whingers and so on and so forth .
Sounds like a complicated diary. At first glance I would say in a completely serious manner - enjoy your social occasions, just don't eat rest of time! Well sort of anyway. It's a socialable time of year, if you normally enjoy then no reason to stop and make yourself miserable. Just try to balance yourself out over a week or fortnight if that is easier. Accept there may be a bit more bloat than usual but if you've had a great time acquiring it, then it is worth a bit of stalling for a week or two. If you manage to keep your overall balance close to tdee then any fluctuations should be short lived.

If alcohol involved, you can never go wrong with one glass water to every alcoholic drink. Slows you down, reduces risk of hangover and really helps with bloat.

Oh, one other thing: gym goers, so I'm particularly looking at bigchoc and bsssh I guess, how do you factor in / time protein shakes? I think that's where it all went wrong last week because I forgot to make half a one for after body pump, had 200 cals worth at 11 and then was too starving by 6 at supper time to have any will power. I think I would have done better with a half one, then egg and spinach for late lunch.

Whimsical- no loss for three weeks, but I'm guessing no gain either so look at it that way. And tip's advice for the festive period is, not surprisingly, spot on. If you go a little over on a fast day don't sweat it, just cut back a little the next day. Try to look at what you eat over a whole week and balance it out.

whimsical
?? protein shakes ??? you mean gym snacks ..... how many calories in one of those and which meal did you drop instead?

seriously, you do not need anything like that unless your body fat is down in the lean athlete range.
On fast days I do hour swim, hour yoga, hour bodypump and eat nothing till my 300 calories soup five hours later ....

Shuffles back onto thread apologetically, nods at Betsy in appreciation.

Well hello

Just having a quick delurk to ask for advice on sticking to TDEE, and this no smacking malarky which I can't seem to grasp. Have been lumbering around in the low elevens for months watching everyone else reach their goals and dance off into the sunset in some size eight outfit they've just acquired.

Enjoying all your musings as usual.

Whine over. Await usual excellent advice.

Smacking! Honestly.

Maybe if the phone wasn't covered in some sort of food smears it would work properly

( peplum )
no smacking involves waiting till the kids are in bed

no snacking is just "the kitchen is closed" outside meal times

wake up, have a cuppa, have a small breakfast if needs be
mid morning have a cuppa
lunchtime, have a cuppa and a small salad or soup or single slice sarnie
mid afternoon have a cuppa
early evening, make supper and eat as a family at the table
after supper not another bite and only water till the morning

its an old fashioned way of eating but it works
others will probably drink less tea than I do!

Smacking! Honestly.

Maybe if the phone wasn't covered in some sort of food smears it would work properly

Double post due trying to clean phone on leg.

Thanks tip will attempt to enter that zone of control you inhabit.

it gets easier you just have to train yourself to not even consider eating at other than mealtimes

so today ended up not being a mini fast after all, but it came in at 1240 cals so 419 under tdee so that will make up for being 319cals over tdee yesterday...

whimsical I always exercise in a fasted state even on NFDs; even on FDs I don't follow an exercise session with food as I don't feel like it, not even after an intense, heavy weights session. I see shakes as snacks and would prefer real food. I know professional weight lifters swear by protein 1 hour post-exercise to repair muscle and restore glycogen but I'm not a professional and exercising in pre- and post- fasted state works for me.

or it did before I sprained my pelvic floor sob sob sob, desperate to return to my beloved weights

peplum no snacking unless it's a special occasion or the weekend. And balance across the week: eat too much one meal/day, then eat less the next. Insert your two fast days (and no more than 500 cals ever!). Exert some willpower, diligence and patience. Bob's your uncle. It really is as simple as that.

Cuckoo A fake cure for a stopped-up bum would be cruel and totally unfunny. I'm only cruel in the gym !
Seriously, this remedy is less drastic than medical laxatives and has fewer unwanted side effects.

I thoroughly recommend this sprouted bread with dates, totally yum and no need to toast:
www.amazon.co.uk/Everfresh-Organic-Sprouted-Wheat-Bread/dp/B002E2JZTY/ref=sr_1_8?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1384987799&sr=1-8&keywords=sprouted+bread

Hello, new here. I've seen the old threads before but always too massive to be able to get through .

I've been doing 5:2 since May and have lost several inches. I woke up one day and realised I was fat and had to do something pronto. Size 12 clothes all too tight (had been kidding myself that size labelling varies so in denial) and had started buying 14. Fearing that if I jumped on the scales to see just how fat I really was and descended into comfort eating to cope with the horror, I never weighed myself! I have been measuring most weeks with a diabetes tape measure, think I was on the danger zone when I started now well in the clear.

Hauled old clothes down from the loft and decided size 8 was my aim and 28 inch waist. Nearly there. Guess I'm a size 10 now, size 12 clothes loss and sagging, the things that had been in the recycling bag for being too tight now fit.

Now my confession is that I finally tried the scales at the weekend (not my home ones) and weighed in at 67kg, which is only 2kg less than my previous heaviest recorded weight of recent years! How the heck can I be 67kg and a size 10?

If no snacking is too hard to start, what about limiting yourself to one snack a day to start with? Make it protein based to make sure it doesn't cause a blood sugar spike. Almonds, peanuts, peanut butter on oatcake, cheese and apple for example.

I do snack very occasionally but only if I truly want it (cakes at Thursday playgroup- yum!) and I no longer graze. I've never been a big evening eater either so closing the kitchen after dinner is never a problem. I also usually finish lunch and dinner with a square of dark chocolate so I get my fix and I'm not tempted to scoff choccy bars all afternoon.

Fanny welcome and well done on losing inches and dress sizes! Weigh again (if you want to) on another set of scales, first thing in the morning. Scales can differ and weight flucuates across the day and week so you'll need to repeat the weigh in a few times for a consistent figure.

wriggle I would define Thursday-playgroup-with-yummy-cakes as a "special occasion" to snack .

2nd FD of week 3 is done & dusted. Today was much easier than previous FD's. I didn't even eat all my dinner (a spicy veggie dish made with blitzed onion, garlic, ginger, chilli, grated carrot and riced cauliflower) - it was delicious but I threw a third of it away.

Is this what happens when you start to get into the swing of things?

Good evening all! So much for getting early nights. Sitting here on iPhone whilst waiting for really cr*ppy slow laptop to finish security updates so I can get a few bits of work done. Grrrrr.

Yesterday's FD ended at approx 650 which I was pretty chuffed with considering I hit the ice cream and choc around 2pm. Working in the evening meant I managed to escape the need to eat dinner. Really struggled with tiredness and lethargy.

Today hasn't been too bad though I'm still not managing to succeed on NNN. I am however taking BigChoc's advice and keeping away from the Panadol extra pick me up I've been relying on. Concerned I've developed a dependency on the stuff to keep me alert and focused. I'm just hoping this will pass in a few days I will get over it and stop grumbling at the kids.

FD tomorrow. Lemon and olive chicken casserole planned for dinner.

Well done to all the loses and those with NSVs. And thanks Betsy for the new thread. Can't believe we r on page 3 already!!!

Whims
I used to religiously glug 90% protein shakes before & after training, because all the other lifters did. However, with 5:2 mindfulness, I begrudge the cals for non-meals, especially on FDs.

Most important to support training are proper high protein meals on NFDs, with plenty of veg, plus carbs to individual requirements.
If you eat on FDs, make this just protein + veg, no other carbs.

When I train fasted, I take zero-cal BCAA (branch chain amino acids) before and after training. This is recommended by LeanGains and other IF lifting / training sites. I use Scivation Xtend, which is a powder, to be mixed with water. I now very rarely have a shake, just if I feel really drained after a long session and can't last until a quick meal at home.

BUT I have ca. 21% BF and train fasted very intensively, often for 2 hrs. You probably don't actually need BCAAs. Try without, unless you experience more than usual muscle soreness.

Evening all. Well done on all the losses and nsv!

Wrigglebum. Size 8. Wow! It's so impressive. Really is.

Bigchocfrenzy. I read about your 6'5" man again. And your NSV and looking tighter. Well done you!

I can sadly report that MrF reverted to form today. and came home late from work function and is now keeping me awake snoring and stinking of drink.

Not surprised at all.

Good news is that I had parents afternoon at school for DD and they are very impressed with her and how well she is doing. Essentially she is amazing, a joy to teach and always happy. I was so very proud. My PFB.. I am having a chat with the pre school staff for DS tomorrow (same school). I think he is doing well. He loves going and he is not a bad boy and mostly well behaved..

FD today. It was 700 cals but I am still claiming it!

On a bad note my hip problem has flared again. It's very odd. I've had no trouble for a long time. And suddenly it went today. I have had twinges over the last few days. I only did my Jillian Workout a few times last week and then both Sat and Sun. I've yet to do it this week and I normally do it at least 5 days a week and have been since Spring. I am in lots of pain and hobbling. I've had the strong pain killers out tonight so apologies for rambling on. Perhaps it's the weather change and there is snow on the way. My SI joints correctly predicted last years snowfall 3 days in advance so brace yourselves.....

I was so cold today too. That's why I ended up at 700 I had to have more soup to warm up. I couldn't drink any more hot tea as it was starting to make me feel queasy as I had so many cups..

And 82 year old FIL has been charged with careless driving. Poor man. Unblemished record and now this. He had an accident today and he is heart broken. He was charged because the police did a spot check on his sight immediately after the accident at the scene and he failed but he had hit his head. So surely it should have waited. Anyway it was his fault. MIL is distraught. She thinks it's her fault because he was picking her up (MIL is almost blind and doesn't drive). Yikes. I have invited them to come down from Scotland tomorrow as they can catch the train last minute. MiL wants to but FIL is too upset. I really feel for them. So if they decide against coming down, DH goes to Scotland for the weekend. Obviously DC aren't coming.....

Bssh, Wriggle 5:2/IF allows us the flexibility to enjoy special occasions, so we can participate in a normal social life.

This is why it is a WOL, not a short-term "diet".

Thank you protein-ers (and also other nice people who said encouraging things - my phone weirdly took an hour to post my second comment).

My friend who I go to BP with swears by protein shakes for 'looking like you've worked out' and i'm very suggestable, so have one with protein powder (local supermarket own brand) plus fruit after body pump or a weights in the gym session. I don't bother after combat or running. My tendency otherwise is to come home, faff with kiddos' food and then just eat crap and I do find the shake stops me doing that. Except clearly last week it just delayed it!

If I'm entirely honest with myself (and you the internet) I haven't exactly been trying to stick to TDEE on nfds, so I should be thankful I haven't gained.

I just read a really interesting book, A Far Cry From Kensington, by Muriel Spark who (divvy alert) I now know is not funny lady Muriel Gray. The heroine of the book starts off as rather large, and eventually decides to lose weight by only eating half of what she previously ate. So at every meal she serves herself what she would have previously but only eats half, eventually working down to half of that. And lo and behold the weight comes piling off, but also she becomes horrified by how much others eat. She also says some interesting things about will power existing only in the present, as in the past you have already resisted, and the future has yet to happen yet. So you only need to resist temptation for a moment. At least I think that's the right way round. I read it rather late whilst feeding a baby.