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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 thread number 30 - Did half term bingeing make you feel dirty? Then hop on board thread number 30!

999 replies

BetsyBell · 07/11/2013 16:09

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
toffeesponge · 19/11/2013 21:14

I love cauliflower and have been meaning to make it for weeks. Any chance there is a version that would work for a FD or when you want to eat almost as little as possible? mini fd I think?

wrigglebum · 19/11/2013 21:21

Toffeesponge- mix the cauliflower with a slightly less caloric cheese sauce. I use Greek yoghurt, mustard powder, black pepper and a finely chopped anchovy plus a bit of very strong cheddar or Parmesan. Just a small amount of the sauce so the it lightly covers the cauliflower rather than drowning it. Delicious! No idea of calories but I'm sure you could work it out.

BetsyBell · 19/11/2013 21:28

Wrigglebum, toffesponge Yes - I use anchovy, yogurt and lemon juice in the mix too - doesn't actually use that much cheese so could just about be a suitable be a fast day dish. Mind you, cauliflower is a bit of a wonderfood - delicious any which way - lightly steamed with a drizzle of lemon and pepper, chopped finely and stirfried with a smidge of sesame oil and lots of garlic and soy sauce, eaten raw dipped in humous.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2013 21:28

Well done Lucy 40 lb is a major achievement.
Flowers
Sorry things didn't work out with your DP, but you seem fairly perky about it.

Betsy NNN refers only to sugary junk and alcohol, so other calorie bombs are ok; fruit is unlimited of course, including in bread.
For tea, I ate several slices of my sprouted date bread with cheese and chorizo, also an apple and 2 plums, totally indulgent calories, sweet and legal.
After my 2hrs cross fit and spin, I needed a supper, so munching a yummy mixed nut selection with a kiwi and slurping cranberry juice.
Lunch was big too, with several veg, so I exceeded my TDEE a bit, but a healthy NNN day.

Cuckoo Good discipline to dump the grotty sandwich. I think many of us have stopped mindless eating, we are now only mindfully greedy.
Grin
If you end up with an 800 FD or a mini-FD today, that's still an achievement on a bad day, where you have seen the vet, frozen your bum, been attacked by exploding coffee (the latter being normal for my kitchen). .... and whatever else has bitten you in the bum since your MN post.

ChocPud Cousin, do stay away from even over-the-counter medications until you need them for illnesses. You'll soon get used to FDs.

All FDers, just hang on a little longer, nearly over !

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2013 21:32

Ooh Wrigglebum,Betsy that cauli sounds delicious and simple enough maybe not to explode onto my ceiling.

Well done on the FD, Somewhere

toffeesponge · 19/11/2013 21:35

Thank you wb and BB. I will give it a go.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2013 21:53

Truffle
So sorry to read about your loss. It seems to take 2-3 years after a bereavement before one feels more normal. Just allow yourself the time you need. This is a very supportive thread, so do post when you're feeling low.

Pamper yourself if you can, regular hairdo, nails, maybe a reflexology feet massage.
Also, exercising to music, especially in company, can help your mood and stress levels.

eatriskier · 19/11/2013 21:57

All of you and other IF forums make me wish I could stomach cauliflower. Seems to be the best food stuff ever. Meh Angry

well not Angry but there's no grumpy

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 19/11/2013 21:59

People!! I am a fraud (hangs head in defeat)

I may have stopped the mindless sandwich. But I have since succumbed to mindless fish and chips. And mindless chocolates.

The worst part ..... I didn't even enjoy it. Feel sick and bloated now.

So today is now a nfd. Fd tmw instead and back to back with a thurs fd too.

DO NOT any single one of you, say anything nice or reassuring to me about it! I know the drill, I was totally out of tune with the whole thing today. Could make excuses of feeling shite, which I do, but bottom line is I failed.

Will get back on horse tmw. Am looking forward to it.

  1. Sandwich binning = result
  2. Rest of day = least said better

I know something off, as I haven't bought a pre packed sandwich for donkey's years, they never appeal. Was feeling desperate earlier. Def emotional eating (smacks hand).

Am ok though! Just hormones, seasonal stuff and tiredness from recent bout of insomnia. I'll survive!

Oh well tmw a new day an all that!

BetsyBell · 19/11/2013 22:14

Don't be silly cuckoo, we've all been there. No need for self-flagellation. Some days it just doesn't happen and it doesn't matter… there's always another fast day to be had. Hope you get a better night's sleep - perhaps you ate all the crap to put you into a big old carb coma? Maybe your body knew exactly what it was doing Grin

eats can you not eat the stuff then or just don't like it? I always forget I like it and hardly ever have it… but been remembering more lately!

OP posts:
Talkinpeace · 19/11/2013 22:18

cuckoo
Don't beat yourself up - it does not do any good.
THe best thing you can do is to put every single bite of it into MFP so that you have a permanent (but hidable) reminder of a day that went haywire.

Tomorrow is another day.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/11/2013 22:42

Hey Cuckoo You are coping with a breakup; you had a rotten night before and a really tough day, so couldn't FD. Your bod is probably screaming for some carbs and fat so you can sleep. Hopefully your bod will win.

In our WOE, an occasional misfire just does not, repeat not matter.

Stand up straight, that woman, when I'm bellowing at you or I'll give 100 pressups to do !

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 19/11/2013 22:44

Hmm Hmm Hmm ooh.... ahem.... errrr yeah ...

Was all part of my plan. I call it the Carb Conk Out. Was trialling it specially for you folks.
Taking one for team, because You. Are. Worth. It!
Clearly I did not fail! Just doin' ma job, all part o' the plan, nothin to see here folks. Wink

(thanks Betsy! Have assumed conk out position now, so fingers crossed)

Tip - that is a bloody brilliant idea! (lightbulb face) It was the really disgusting greasy kind that made paper transparent with grease (gag) so I should add on a third again in cals at least!

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 19/11/2013 22:46

(carb fear fart at Big Choc bellowing)

Loud and clear! Thanks Cake

Breadandwine · 19/11/2013 23:22

Look at the research, guys, and you'll find that we are PROGRAMMED TO BECOME FAT!

When you eat, you tell the body there is food available - so the appetite is stimulated. So you eat some more - which tells the body there is still food available, so the appetite is stimulated again.

And on and on until satiety is reached - and then, later on, say at lunch time, the appetite strikes again. Which is why most of us struggle on NFDs.

This all happens because the body wants to lay down fat in times of plenty, to prepare for the lean times which will lie ahead. Except of course the lean times never come. (For the purposes of this argument, I am, of course, ignoring the rise and rise of Food Banks! Confused)

So no one should be blamed for being fat - or for binge-eating. It's all in the genes!

rubbishfamily333 · 19/11/2013 23:41

Today I'm around 315 over tdee Hmm not happy!

I think I need 3 fast days but think i will find it hard as I'm at home weds so think fasting at home will be difficult.

And Fridays may not be easy to fast. No way do I fancy fast days back to back.

Any tips or suggestions from others that do 4.3?

I need to be below 10 stone for Xmas, it will make me feel much happier!

eatriskier · 20/11/2013 06:40

betsy

I don't like it [sucks thumb]. I've suffered a veg aversion since I was a kid. The list of vegetables I would eat was: Potatoes

By the end of my teens you could add onions and peppers into that.

As an adult and discovering other ways of cooking/forcing myself I now willingly eat carrots, peas, swede, butternut squash, sweet potato, parsnip (sometimes). Will eat tomatoes if cooked into something.

Have retried cauli recently. I liked it more than broccoli, but I hated broccoli so that's no leap for cauli I'm afraid Confused

Being fussy sucks.

eatriskier · 20/11/2013 06:43

rubbish can you fast on a weekend day. There are plenty of people who do (maybe not here, but on other sites).

BetsyBell · 20/11/2013 08:04

Rubbish I do a weekend fast sometimes - it's surprisingly fine. Have you joined our no naughties group? It's surprisingly hard to even get to tdee if you're cutting out junk, sugar and booze.

Oh eats, were you subject to boiled, tasteless mush as a child? The key is to make them interesting and not think sideline them. Do you like salad? You can prepare and dress veg in the same way. Maybe challenge yourself to an interesting veg fast day - everything tastes amazing when you're hungry!

OP posts:
somewherebecomingrain · 20/11/2013 08:06

cuckoo last week I had a whole week of fail, not just haft term but then my dp,s staycation/birthday week. FDs went up to 1200, 1500. Barely a mini fast. A sort of proto carb conk out. I put on a quarter to half a stone.

Anyway yesterday's FD went great -easy - and this morning I'm back to my all time low. Very surprised.

Just saying etc. this woe isn't totally plain sailing but it stays with you through The ups and downs in a way others don't.

lucyintheskywithdinos · 20/11/2013 08:59

NFD here today. Might have just had the new Anthony WT Nutella-a-like (but no dairy!) for breakfast.

Is anyone else surprised by how little food they are happily not-hungry on? I feel as though I hardly ever eat these days and my housemates have started serving me the kid sized portions my very skinny housemate eats, rather than the mega bowls everyone else has.

I am enthusiastically seconding breadandwine

Must. Go. Do. Some. Work.

eatriskier · 20/11/2013 09:09

betsy I forgot I like lettuce! But not a cucumber fan so I do salad of a kind. DM only likes really bland food and is a good cook, but yes it was mainly boiled mush! I'm still suspicious of parsnips as there was a semi annual give the fussy child a roast parsnip and tell her it was a potato hilarity Hmm (I could tell the difference surprisingly…). I went to uni and discovered food from other cultures, and my diet has vastly improved. I prepare foods for my kids that I won't eat because I want them to try things whilst still young enough and don't want them turning into me. Though now winter is here I love homemade soups and stews. I mainly fill with veg which is how I started trying to force myself into eating veg in the first place. Or there's squash as a pasta substitute which I love with some arrabiata sauce. Yum yum.

Breadandwine · 20/11/2013 09:17

Thanks Lucy!

Yes, I am. I'm on my own for a couple of days whilst my wife is with out daughter and grandson, so I'm taking this opportunity to have a liquid fast today.

I'm one of the lucky ones in that I never feel hungry - so I'll happily go through until sometime tomorrow just on black coffee and water.

BTW, have I told you about my new favourite meal? It's a curried lentil, rice and cabbage dish, but instead of tomatoes I use coconut milk and Thai spices instead of Indian.

It is divine!

Off now to make pain au chocolat and jam doughnuts with the families in a Children's Centre - and I still won't feel hungry! Smile

BsshBossh · 20/11/2013 09:21

lucy I'm always commenting on how much smaller my portions sizes are these days and how little it takes to fill me up.
breadandwine hear hear, totally agree with you ref. binging and feast/famine.
cuckoo you've had the kind of slip up we all have - we're human, it's natural (ref. b&w's post). Brush yourself off and start afresh.

Another NFD for me today but I'm not going to repeat yesterday's mistake by having breakfast (it bloated me up completely and I wasn't even hungry for it yesterday). Today I will eat whatever I want but only when tummy-grumblingly, physically hungry.

BeCool · 20/11/2013 09:31

Clocking in - FD today.

I found Monday quite hard - I was hungry all day and THOUGHT about food all day. Just getting on with it today - and then I am 'free' for the rest of the week :)

Cuppa tea!