The 5:2 thread number 29 - The C word party season is not too far off, come join us and drop a few pounds. Warning! This way of eating is so easy you may never want to stop...

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Itsa my DD likes only chocolate cake too (but it can't have any icing on it!). Yes, more cake for us :)

This half term week is a write off. Yes, a good FD and another one due tomorrow. But I've been eating at exercise TDEE all week and not sedentary TDEE. No biggie. There won't be a loss this week - may even be an increase - but it's business as usual from next week (including exercise) :)

DumDum, a 500-calorie day is the fast. As described in the OP

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week.

By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

Having an extended period of time completely without food is a choice some 5:2ers make to maximise the health benefits or to allow for a glass of wine or a larger dinner but, strictly, it is not part of 5:2 and doesn't suit everyone. And that's ok.

Here's where I throw my toys out of the pram: I am disturbed at how often the choice of not eating til dinner is given as the way to do 5:2 to newcomers to this thread. There is a danger that people who would benefit from this woe would be put off by this instruction - I might have been if I hadn't read quite a lot about 5:2 to know that I could spread out my 500 calories to suit me.

DumDum for 5:2 to become a WOE/WOL, you need to do whatever suits you. If that means raiding the fruit bowl throughout the day, then do so.

Rant over - thankfully! In all other ways, this thread is fantastic to all who make it so.

Well said helles

Also to point out some things spike people's hungers where they don't spike others. Diet drinks help people like me but they make other's hungrier. Fruit helps some people, but doesn't others. Do what works for you.

Hiya

melanie lovely NSV. Impossibly tiny designer bargain - it's got it all.

I had almost 4k cals yesterday. Today am under tdee. I don't think I will gain therefore.

The good news is I did 18:6 today and it felt good, really good. Ie I had less appetite than usual. My body is getting into it. I can't always do the perfect mosely version but IF is becoming a way of life.

Tomorrow do I fast? I think so, but will go back to my beginners style fast with a soup lunch, a dinner and a 750 cal target.

Good luck tomorrow's fasters, well done today's fasters. Hope you are feeling that quiet excitement that comes from a day of fasting and have lovely sound sleeps.

It's a gorgeous dress - black leotard stlye top bit, grey wool pleated skirt bit, floaty tie-bands at the waist. And washing instructions that say "do not wash"!!!!

I was going to fast tomorrow - but I have a Serious Important Meeting in the afternoon (boss is off sick and I'm trying my best to impress). So I think, no fasting, and wear one of my power-dresses.

dumdum Those WW drinks are full of crap, so best to stick to natural foods when possible, preferably high in protein. Eating more than once a day when fasting is fine and that's what I've mostly done because it suits me. What's key to success is the calorie deficit and having a marked and consistent contrast between your FD's and NFD's.

Don't forget to keep logging in even if you can't post because these threads are fab for support.

Wednesday is my usual splurge day but today I've gone crazy. I've been feeling awful the past few days and tonight was a stark reminder that I still need to work on my comfort eating issues, despite maintaining a 2.7st weight loss for over three months.

Wow SouthEastDweller that is a seriously major loss over such a short period of time. [Flowers]

What are you doing to tone and avoid saggy skin? Seeing that guy with the ripping skin gave me a wee bit of concern over my slightly flappy belly and I need ideas!

On the note of how to fast and not eating till dinner etc etc.

I can work 5:2 because its flexible.

I eased myself into it all and built up
Slowly. No way could I not eat till dinner however I can happily skip breakfast but I must have a small
Early lunch.

And I often need a miso soup, cup a soup or coffee mid afternoon to keep me going.

For any beginners or anyone thinking of having a go at 5:2, you don't have to follow a set pattern. It's totally flexible. You can even eat three meals on a fast day if you choose.

I didn't start with 500 cal fasts. It took weeks to get there. I did under 1000 cals I first and worked my way down.

I'm a softie so I often still don't manage 500 and its 700. I don't beat myself up at all. I still lose weight. And besides I have two small DC and a busy life and I do Jillian Michaels workouts.

I would probably get to my goal faster and in fact I would probably be there already if I was extra super strict. However I need to make it through difficult days with the small DC and DH travelling for business or working very late so everything at home falls to me and if that means an extra 200 cals on a Fast day to make it though I don't worry about it.

You can build up slowly and eventually you can do hardcore things like 36 hour liquid fasts. Etc.

Apologies for the rant. Long day difficult pmt etc.

I meant to say that I lost that over six months Helles (started Jan 25th) but maintained the loss since July 22nd.

That's the thing, I'm doing nothing to tone - people here say doing weights is good but I've got a silly block about doing this which I need to overcome even though I do cardio five times a week at the gym. I'm still quite podgy all over even at a BMI of 21 which is why I'm still reluctant to post before and after pics.

Hiya. Think I've just decided to do the 5:3 after months of pathetic attempts to shift baby weight. DC2 now 2 so proper overdue.

When I did a search on Mumsnet to see what you thought about it, couldn't belieeeeeeeve the number of threads, let alone the number of messages.

So, what are the top tips for a newbie?

I've browsed the links and stuff at the top of the thread - really helpful, thank you BetsyBell!
How do you decide which are the best days to fast?

How do you deal with temptation when doing kids teas etc? I can never resist letting the bowl of odd oven chip pass my lips.

MrsF you totally didn't rant! Interesting though :)

SED what's the weights block about, do you think?

...and thanks too for Greeneggsandnicht

.....aaaaaaand I meant 5:2

Welcome UseNorOrnament as a relative newbie myself, my top three tips are:

1. Weigh rarely, concentrate on how you feel and how your clothes fit.
2. Try out different days/meals to find out what works for you (spices make fd's so much nicer for me)
3. If you have a large meal or a gluttony-day think of it as a one-off and start afresh at the next opportunity

Get ready to rethink your beliefs about your attitudes to food. Enjoy :)

Welcome UseNorOrnament. You've had great tips from HellesBelles; as another relative newbie I'll add a few more:

1. Don't be put off if the first few FDs feel hard to get through - they will get (much) easier after the first couple of weeks.

1. Plan your week in advance - bank an early FD to give you flexibility later in the week, and plan your meals/calories ahead for each FD.

1. Deal with temptation by reminding yourself you can have the oven chip (or whatever) tomorrow. When tomorrow comes you'll probably find you don't want it after all.

1. Stick around this thread for invaluable advice and support!

Just catching up after our trip away. London was great but utterly exhausting! Thanks for tip re transport museum- DS loved it and I did too. We had a nice meal in Covent Garden before too, after having walked there from Hamleys. Saw changing of the guard yesterday, then a stroll by parliament and some Japanese food before a bus trip past all the sights back to Paddington. Ate a lot (for the new me) plus choc snacks but lots of walking with DS2 on my back and I've not put on an ounce.

Not going to do a FD this week since DH is off work and DS off school, but I can get back on it next week.

SouthEastDweller Losing so much and maintaining is a great achievement !

UseNorOrnament What I found useful for FDs:
Ease into them gradually, both re calorie count and no. of meals
Go for protein and veg, maybe homemade soup.
Avoid fat, starches and fruit.
Drink lots of water. Also tea, coffee etc without sugar or milk.

For NFDs:
Again lots of protein & veg, but add starches & fruit
You can have cake, chox, or wine etc but try not to go far above TDEE
No snacks between meals

If you don't already exercise, try to start gently.

Just returned after my 90 mins boxing at the gym.

It was an FD, but I had a teatime slipup when a chocolate muffin sneaked in under the radar. I only stopped a total Choc Frenzy by desperate measures: 40g Lindt 90% choc.

Eat Do you eat your pnut butter directly from the jar ? I eat all nut purees that way, but must restrain myself from eating a 350g jar for pud - a 70% fat calorie bomb !
My favourite nut puree is an organic 4-nut mix of hazelnuts, cashews, almonds, pnuts. Also delicious on wholegrain toast with cinammon and a banana.

Just wandering to wave at all. Another successful FD here, second of the week. Planning on another on Friday as want to do 4:3 this week and the next four in my attempt to lose 6lbs in 5 days.

DumDum - I think I do this WOE differently to everyone else as I have no breakfast or dinner but do have lunch. I am starving for an hour after waking up but, if I keep busy & drink plenty of water, I can go through until lunch time. Despite loads of people saying don't have carbs, I then have a jacket potato and tuna or prawns with salad. Its so nice to have something warm & comforting. I often then have some slices of ham or roast beef around 4.30pm, especially if I am at home with the DC and need something to get me through their tea time without nibbling their food. After their tea, thinks are so hectic with tidying up, bath time etc that its about 7.30 before I next think about food at which point I tell DP I'm not eating and try and avoid the kitchen until 8.30ish after which I'm not hungry again until the next morning.

Covered - L laughed at your cheek bone comment. I now find my collar bone alarmingly nobbly

hey all :)

thanku so.much for all of wise words and advice I really appreciate it.

I like the idea of having soups as I'm not big on proteins. I also like the idea of starting my day with boiled eggs with added cup of tea. I will stick to fruit for lunch as that works for me & for dinner either a salad or soup. if I get hungry I'll just add another soup to the mix. I like a couple of crackers aswell to munch on in between.

on NFD's I tend to stick to around 1200 cals just gotta remember to stick to 500 calls in FD!

I've stopped having bread, rice & pita bread which I have to say has been the hardest being in a Asian household where curry is made everyday :(

today started good but then I bumped into a good ffriend of mine & we ended up having Lebanese food food for dinner. I had more salad then food but I think total cal count for today has been more around the 2000 mark. oh well tomorrow is another day!

I think I will stick to Fasting of 18 hour days as that works for me. I can't do any exercise due to medical reasons so I'm afraid its only dieting for me :(

well done to all on loses it must feel great I imagine :)

good night to all here's to a good day tomorrow

UseNorOrnament - love the name!

You've done the right thing by going through these threads - there's a wealth of info and inspiration in them. I would encourage anyone with a few minutes to spare to dip into them from time to time. Make sure you go through the Tips and Links thread as well.

You'll no doubt have noticed that while FDs become easier as you go along, NFDs are often a problem in that once you start to eat, you find it difficult to stop. It's something I'm constantly aware of, and I've been maintaining for over 12 months, now.

Your best friend here is … a kitchen timer, I use it every day! Set it for 20 minutes and if you're still hungry, by all means have something else. Applies to the kids as well:

This 4 minute film by Dr Lustig (he of the 'Sugar: The bitter truth' film and book) gives 4 tips for making your home safe for your children.

In summary, here they are:

Nr.1 – Get rid of every sugared beverage in the house – that includes fuit juice.
Nr.2 – We need to keep insulin down – by eating fibre. If you eat your carbohydrate with fibre, you will lessen the insulin response. Look at the side of the package, you need 3g of fibre or more
Nr.3 – Wait 20 minutes for second portions. It takes that long for the body to realise it’s had enough to eat.
Nr.4 – Buy your screen time with activity – if you’re outside for half an hour, you can have 30 minutes of TV; if you spend an hour out on your bike, you can have an hour of video games (Good luck with that one - but it can be done!)

The film is here. Well worth watching.

DumDum if you're not already suffering information overload, here is one last nugget from me.....

Whatever you do DON'T go to a Mexican restaurant and eat what turn out to be stuffed naga chillies on an empty stomach (well, apart from dregs of a pumpkin spice latte sloshing around). Because that is one surefire (pun intended) way to revive any existing stomach pains.

As you can see from all of the responses, everybody has their own way. So it really is adaptable for all different shapes and sizes and genders and healthinesses and ages etc etc. It works!

My earlier comments were aimed specifically at your stomach issues, based on my stomach issues (as someone who takes diff meds too). For me, the longer break helped my pain, which I am certain is down to a rest for the digestive system. This was compared to all previous recoveries following a flare up. Pain relief from eating is a symptom of ulcers, which is why I recommend trying to get to bottom of cause, as you shouldn't have to put up with pain of something that can be treated, if at all poss. Once you remove the pain/eat cycle (if of course, it is possible) then you are free to eat as and when, rather than as a pain reliever.

If I have offended anyone with implications that only an extended period of time without food is classed as a fast, then I apologise. I may well be wrong (it has been known), but I got the impression from the post, the desire was to increase food free period from tea time to breakfast time to something longer. Which for me personally is 'normal' meal times minus snacking, so no, I don't consider that a fast.

I guess it is all down to the definition of the word fast in this woe. I think of it as having a long period of time without food, and that the 500 cal (or ?) is there for daily maintenance, but that optimally, a complete break for a decent length of time enhances the effects. But, as the proof is in the pudding, I am not knocking any methods. Again, apologies if I misinterpreted post and obviously these are my views and not the gospel on 5:2 IF etc.

..and now I shall lie down with my acid reflux and scared bottom, and wait for the offending chillies to naff off!

Dumdum To add to above - longer period of time for me not eating, whilst having stomach issues, would usually be drinks until lunchtime, then soup/banana/egg followed by an evening meal (I like saving/having more cals to make a bigger dinner) as that is my 'struggle' time of day. Each fd has been different though. As they have gone on I have found myself going longer without (naturally), except maybe a soup, this has been helped by fact that as each week on 5:2 gone by, my stomach has felt better each fd. If it hadn't felt better, I wouldn't have been able to manage that. Hence the reason I hope you can sort out eat/pain issue. Then you have freedom to change 5:2 to suit if you wish, rather than being dictated to by your pain. Was meant to help, hope I haven't confused :(

Hi everyone

Just saying hello and marking my place really. Got a tummy bug going round our house at the moment. My 6yr old was up all night on Tues, now I feel a bit wobbly.

Ugh.

Just having an early morning read through to gear myself up for my 2nd FD of the week.
If I may add one thing to the great advice you received DumDum, you mentioned on nfds eating only 1200 calories, it's too low and it's hard to sustain. If you could work out your tdee and I think some recommend 10-20% under a couple of days, bang on at weekends you'll still lose but at least you can keep at it. My tdee is around 1900-2000 but most nfds I eat about 1600, then weekends are definitely 2000 or more. I believe this is a way of life cause it allows a life that isn't miserable, only mildly tough on 2 days - tough for me today as I'm up since 5 ironing and lunch isn't til 1 . Cup of tea anyone

I was thinking the same as not2 - 1200 sounds too low for all fast days and is not only unsustainable but doesn't allow for enough of a marked difference between fast days and non fast days. You might find your body is reluctant to shed any fat at all dumdum.

Work out your Tdee or post up your weight, height and age and we can do it for you . Keep to within 15% of your Tdee most Nfds and allow yourself 1 splurge day a week.

Tea and coffee drinkers: it's fine to have a splash of milk in your hot drinks on fast days - those 15cals are not considered breaking your fast. But don't forget to include the cals in your fast day allowance.