The 5:2 Thread number 21! Soaking up the Sunshine

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Hi everyone and thanks to betsy.

kate I exercise fine on all days, actually I'm a little bit more energetic on fast days than I am on the NFD's. I don't think it makes any difference to the amount of weight you lose if you do consecutive days, by the way. I haven't found fasting on consecutive days any easier or harder than fasting on days with a gap between. Just do your two days whenever (ideally when you'll be busy) and you'll be fine and dandy.

Been fasting today and yesterday and have had little appetite - probably gone to no more than 400 calories on each day - which may be my body's reaction to going overboard on a couple of days recently. But I'm looking forward to my veggie sausage roll in the morning and relaxing on my afternoon off.

Good luck everyone who's fasting tomorrow.

Cupcake, I put on 3lb each period and then, well, wee it all out again! So last Thursday weigh-in I had a 4lb weight loss, which was amazing, and then promptly stacked it all back on...but as of yesterday afternoon, I was back down 3 of those lbs. Which, considering I over-indulged massively from Thursday to Sunday inclusive (period always makes me eat and drink way past satiety...I just roll with it now), is not bad going at all.

FD Monday. Almost a FD yesterday - got busy and at 8 pm had only had a 350-cal sandwich all day, but I was STARVING by that point, so ate dinner. FD today, and I don't know when I'll eat; I have to help my mother move house, which will take me from daycare pickup straight to my fencing class, with no chance to get tea in between. I really don't want to go to fencing on no calories - it's been working well to eat most of my calories just before class - but I don't want to risk eating all the calories in the mid afternoon and then be starving all night. Dilemmas.

Crystal, 3lb! See above re my 4lb lose-gain-lose - even if you do splodge some back on when you have an eating day, it'll come straight back off, I reckon.

Hello, i'm new!
I've done my 7th FD on Monday yet i still don't seem to notice any weightloss?! Is it normal for it to not start dropping until after a bit longer?! I admit to slightly overdoing it on NFD, any tips/advice? I'm feeling a bit disheartened and need some motivation! I did the TDEE calculator thingy and that told me i should be eating 2097cals? xx

It depends on what you mean by slightly overdoing it on NFD's! You only have to overeat by 300 calories on a NFD and you have wiped out the deficit you created on a fast day. I don't calorie count or use a TDEE but I've noticed that as I fast I do adjust portion size down on NFD's as I physically can't fit as much food in. Also in my mind I think that if I'm making the effort on the fast days I don't want to spoit it by eating too much on the NFD's. If you are eating too much on NFD's then you probably do need to calorie count for a while.
How much weight you lose in the first few weeks will also depend on how overweight you are. I reckon I need to lose at least 2.5 stone and I'm 5'2 so that's % wise quite a bit, you may have less to lose anyway so the loss may be slower. I've been doing this since Jan and have so far loss 1.5st, keep going it will start to come off.

I meant overeat by 300 calories on every NFD to lose the deficit from one fast day!

Hi aka it was me that posted about antibiotics.

I was on a 7 day course and despite sticking to my FDs and eating sensibly on NFD I seemed to put on around 0.5 a day!!

I've been off the antibiotics for a week now and the weight has slowly dropped off again. I have also been having a bottle of the pro-biotic Yakult light every day as my gut felt very sluggish and got some herbal water balance tablets, not sure the latter made much difference but definitely felt better for the Yakult. Also made sure I drunk loads of water.
Utterly convinced the antibiotics made me retain water. Once you've finished the course I'm sure it will come off but it may take a few days.
Also speaking to my super slim, super fit sister she also complained that when she's had to take antibiotics recently she puts on about 4-5lb.
Hope you feel better soon , let me know how you get on.

Also another plateau story here, have been bobbling around the same weight for 4 weeks and felt like giving up. However reading everyone's similar experiences does keep you going and for no apparent reason in the last 2 days I have started losing properly again - Yay
You start to convince yourself it's not going to happen but it does, commonsense tells us it has to if you are eating less calories than your body needs. Now at lowest weight for at least 25 years - 9st 11.6lb. Read somewhere that when experiencing weight loss, every now and then the body goes through a sort of recalibration process and adapts to the new weight which could cause the stalling we experience, if I can find the story will post the link.

NSV - Can't believe I'm typing this but even bought a pair of size 10 jeans, OK they were stretchy but it felt weird . Have threatened teenage DD that I will now be raiding her wardrobe as I can fit into some of her clothes, also added that when finished wearing them will leave them dirty on the floor - ha ha Revenge is sweet

Well done for sticking with it silver, there's hope for me yet! Back at target today, but I know I'll bounce up, so thinking of a below target target, iykwim, around 10.

Deciding on exercise level on TDEE calculator. My exercise is walking puppy 3 times a day every day totalling 1hr15 obv not as hard as running or gym etc, so do you think this should be classed as light exercise on the calculator or moderate? For my details its the difference between 2000 or 2300 calories

Peplum - I'm 5ft 3 and 9 stone at the mo. Ihave been down to 8st 2 but it was too low for me. I want to be back to 8st 7. I do like this WOE but I haven't lost anything yet and this will be my 4th week. I'm definately going to stick with it but I'm haven't been sure about what my TDEE is and whether I should do 4:3 or 5:2. It is so difficult when you try so hard but plateau!!!

I've just worked been on the TDEE calculator website and when I entered the light exercise option my BMR is 1300 and TDEE is 1788. Shall I hover between these 2 figures or should I stick with the TDEE?

Morning all,

Annoyed with self as was going to weigh weekly but thought a quick check with the scales was just the thing this morning- wrong!! 3lb up, infact they even had the nerve to suggest Im back to 12stone. I had a dicky tum yesterday so thought theyd still say 11:9.

prawntoast you're so right about that extra 300 on NFDs, not realised that before! I sneakily suspect I might be maintaining rather than being on a plateau. Well done on the 1.5 off.

silverbeetle chuckling at threats to teenagers- they're such easy targets! Size ten jeans, that's a real 10, jeans aren't the most comfy or forgiving item of clothing if a bit tight.

Notonaschoolnight I also do a similar amount of dog walking and I just class it as light exercise as my job either involves me sitting on bum for hours at a time or standing up all day. I think that classifying it as 'light exercise' balances things out.

well done Bramblesinforrin can't 'weight' until I'm at target 5-6lbs to go.

Hi Alm, Im also 5ft 3! Would love to be 9st, but I know what you mean. Its a comfort thing, and for me a double chin and muffin top thing. Yes, believe it or not, the higher TDEE figure is what you can eat!

Notonaschoolnight I would say light exercise being a dog walker myself. I realised this morning what a useless form of exercise he is now, its all stop, sniff, cock leg, sniff again. Plus, I do tend to plod and day dream.

Lol Peplum that sounds familiar I agree with you both, light it is

morning all thanks for well wishes for friday.

scales say 10.8 again today but i'm assuming a couple of pounds of that is period water retention and bunged upness that comes with it as i'm feeling slimmer and know i haven't overdone it.

going to fast today even though it probably won't show any benefit on the scales for now.

friday will be a fast day anyway given i can't eat before surgery and will probably be in no fit state to do so afterwards. realistically i guess i need to ignore the scales for a week or two given the effects of anaesthetic and morphine on the digestive system and just focus on good nutrition and health and see where i'm at after that.

welcome to all newcomers and waves to the old hands. can't believe i've been doing this for 4 months now - it really is sustainable

A thought on snacking which came to me in the night ! After eating a meal the food stays in the stomach for a certain length of time while digestion starts and then enters the gut. It occurred to me that if you keep putting more bits of food in they may be less well processed by stomach enzymes before entering the gut.

Some long ago A'level Bio surfacing here but I wondered if that is related to Bssh noticing an improvement with IBS ?

I'm of the aiming for sedentary Tdee then accounting for exercise separately camp. Easy for me though as the most exercise I do is walking to and from town or nursery with 1 or 2 kids in the buggy. Have my trusty pedometer do my calculating for me.

Off to a Jamie Oliver party tonight so am guessing nibbles will be at hand. Must use willpower

Good luck for Friday SAF I know what you mean about longevity - I've done 4 months and into month 5 now. I think this is the longest I've been consistently slim for ages ISYWIM. I have been skimming 10-2/10-3 before, but then stuff would happen, and I'd go off the wagon and end up half a stone heavier. This is keeping me low which is ace.

I have to say though that I felt really washed out towards the afternoon/evening yesterady- having had 2 days together. I saw a new low this morning of 10 stone and 1/2lb but I am longing to get down to around 91/2 stone / a comfortable size 12 trousers and then switch to 6-1. Fingers crossed that might be by the end of July if I stick to watching my TDEE in between fast days.

NFD yesterday and today.

Finished well under TDEE yesterday and planning for the same today.

The wicked witch is on her way out thank god, feeling utterly drained if I'm honest.

I have been feeling really fuzzy headed the last few days? Has anyone else had this?!?

Hi mehefin

I'm another who's noticed a major improvement to their IBS since fasting. I am quite severely intolerant to cows milk products and in the past have been diagnosed with other, less severe, intolerances.

My theory is

1. The fast days give my body time to process and recover from the foods I find less easy to digest, so the "get it all out now, however you have to" digestive response is not triggered. I think there's some tipping point for intolerances, beyond which the body just rejects the food it cannot efficiently digest.

1. I'm eating an awful lot more vegetable fibre than before and a lot less processed fibre (white rice, white pasta, etc). I think this helps to slow everything down and give my body a chance to process everything.

1. My body is becoming adjusted to the idea of fasting/VLC for 15-40% of the time and is retaining calories. It no longer has the "luxury" of rejecting calories through diarrhoea and therefore is overriding the psychological reactions to stress that were exacerbating my D

1. I've lost weight, I feel good and I have a much more positive relationship with food. I'm not bingeing like I used to and I think that has a positive effect on my digestive health.

Sorry for the essay, fast day ramble! Time for a tea I think to distract myself....

monster54

Eat more!! You're supposed to fast on fast days, not every day! That can lead to disordered eating, eventually your body will want to binge to survive.

Aim for TDEE today or, if you absolultey must, TDEE-100 - no lower.

Hello, new here.

Well, I finally took the plunge and this is my first (hopefully not my) fast day. I have been watching what I eat since Saturday. I have not counted calories but having done MFP combined with low GI religiously for ages, I am pretty confident what a portion looks like (the problem is when I ignore the portion size ).

So far today I have not had anything to eat but I am due to go to work at 12.30 and will have my breakfast of porridge and blueberries just before then.

I was hungry this morning at my usual breakfast time but am surprisingly not that hungry at the moment. It seems to come in waves. I do suffer from low blood sugar so I'm just trying it out this week and see how it goes.

Thanks pofj but I'm desperately trying to get off a stall I think I'm over doing it on the weekends so going below TDEE during the week to try and get things moving.

The body isn't a machine, it's not a simple as fewer calories in= weight loss. Your body is designed to prolong your survival as much as possible. If you are starving it for a prolonged period, especially if you don't have significant weight to lose (as in super-morbidly obese) it will cling on to everything it's go and divert energy away from non-critical systems to keep the core running as long as possible.

The best advice someone on here gave me when in a stall was to eat more, then eat less, then eat more. So do some 4:3's, do some 6:1's. Mix it up a bit.

Rather than eating under all the time, maybe try a 4:3 to kickstart the stall - but eat to TDEE the rest of the time. 4:3 represents an approx 3000 cal deficit anyway, adding to that the rest of the week will just start to cause your body to shut down.

Thanks but I did 2 weeks of 4:3 and still nothing.

I'm not starving myself just eating around 1300cals on my week day NFD's...

I've been some 5 weeks now without a loss and I'm just trying different combinations to try and get things moving. If this doesn't work this week then I will try something else.

But just eating to TDEE isn't helping me lose right now!