The 5:2 Thread number 21! Soaking up the Sunshine

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Sorry couldn't remember the terminology

BMR 1452
TDEE 2251

Which one do I use for a 'normal' day?

fluffy it was not ^actually^ a zero fast because I had milk in a couple of coffees.
But I ate nothing. Normally I have a 500 cal supper but decided to try without.
It was ok.
Just got back from the gym [does show off dieting "wheelies"]
What I could really do with is some sleep

eagle do you find that doing 16:8 helps with weight loss while you are doing 5:2 also? I am nearly there most days, as I always make my last food dinner (finished by 6pm) and don't eat until breakfast the next day at about 9am, so would only have to wait an extra hour for breakie, but don't know if it's worth doing. What do you think?

horseylady were you asking about the TDEE calculator? I also didn't quite understand your question. If you wanted to know if it was the BMR or TDEE number you need to look at, then it's the TDEE. You eat a quarter of your TDEE on fast days. I have 2000 cals on NFDs, and 500cals on FDs. When my weight lessens, then my calorie intake will have to lessen too! As long as I'm losing weight , I'm hanging on to the 2000 HTH.

eagle. I don't understand what 16:8 means. Can you explain please?

horseylady. You eat your TDEE allowance on your non-fast days.

Emily Well done. I hope the scales reward you, that's a great effort. Hope you get some sleep soon. I always feel wide awake on a fast night, don't know why

Ok brill! The website just said to lose weight eat the BMR? That was all. I wasn't sure if the website was specifically for the 5:2 or if it was for other things to. Thanks!!

My first post on this thread, although I pop in now and then for virtual support. Just thought I'd share my experience so far - it might help the people who are becoming obsessed with calories and counting even on non fast days.

I hesitantly started fasting in March, but only really managed about one day a week (my birthday and a holiday were involved that month). So I 'properly' started at the beginning of April doing 5:2. When I started I was starting to burst out of my size 14 trousers. I'm 49.

I don't have any scales (treacherous things - tightness of trousers is a much better measure) and I don't count calories at all on non fast days. I eat and drink as normal (some might say greedily) and plenty of wine is involved at weekends. On fast days I don't eat anything all day (but I do have two or three white coffees), then either a very small version of whatever I've cooked for my son or a small tin of beans on toast, sometimes with an egg. This week's innovation has been a small tin of pilchards on toast instead. Occasionally I buy a calorie counted meal at around 400 cals.

I'm now back in size 12 trousers and aiming for the slightly tight 12 jeans that fitted perfectly 3 years ago.

I can honestly say that now I've got into a habit it's easy (or at least it is if I'm at work, not so easy at home). Simply no food until about 7pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Rest of the week I do as I like.

I would also add that I sleep extremely well on fast days and wake up feeling virtuous. I'm aiming to continue with this until the infamous size 12 jeans are a comfortable fit and then maybe go to one fast day a week. Or just carry on if that keeps me at a steady 12.

kent your story is how I understood 5:2 should work. Thanks!! And yes I'm going on jeans too!!

horseylady, no, mfp is not specifically for 5:2 - it's general. You want to set your goal as maintenance, not weight loss. Remember you are getting a calorie deficit by eating only 500 calories 2 days a week, which is about 3500 deficit for you. Also, if you track calories on non fast days and put in what & how much exercise you did, you will get extra calorie allowance that you can eat.

Hopefully that makes sense - I'm a bit tired now.

Thanks fluff still awake .
Oddly, even though it was a difficult day (other stresses I think) the fact that I had no meal made it a bit easier IYSWIM. No unleashing of the hunger monster.

Hello comingtokent. Good inspiration.

horsey the reason the two values are different is becuase your BMR (basal metabolic rate) refers to the energy your body uses just staying still (so if you spent all day in bed for example (I can dream)). Whereas your TDEE makes allowance for activity levels; hence the TDEE is higher.

Emily I understand about the 'hunger monster'! Mine can get seriously out of control I have to keep him firmly chained up for as long as possible on a fast day. How are you feeling this morning? I should imagine it's a great feeling knowing you took in no cals yesterday. Hope today goes well for you.

comingtokent great to hear your story, thank you for sharing. You've done so well, and it seems you will be fitting into those jeans very soon. Let us know how you get on

No loss this week, stayed exactly the same but have lost half inch of hips and waist so still going in right direction. Did no exercise this week and usually do 3 bike rides but combination of poor weather and lack of time prevented me from going out so wonder whether this has had an effect or is it the dreaded plateau? We'll see next week.

Have a good weekend all.

Hi all.

Loss of 1lb this week to 8st 9lb, so total loss of 3lb. I am pleased with that. So another fast day today. Tummy all grumbly so time for a drink I think. I have a very busy day today, so hopefully I won't think too much about food, although have to go food shopping at some point.

BTW, I am trying really hard to get to know everyone on here and their 5:1 journey (sorry if that sounds a bit naff) through their postings. However, I'm getting all muddled up. Hopefully, at some point names will click (it's a real life issue too actually).

Reporting a 1.5lb gain this week. Not a good idea to make a banana Bread and eat most of it myself, as well as some fancy Waitrose biscuits that were on offer. I justified eating them by thinking it was OK because I was having them over two or three days rather than in one - the kind of crap I used to tell myself regularly before I started this WOL. Also need to realise that throwing away food sometimes is fine, in this case overripe bananas.

Will do better this week anyway and well done to those of you with losses.

Having started in nov, when my weight fluctuated between 10-2 and 10-4, today I weighed in at 9-8.5 - first time under 9-9 in years!

I admit to daily weighing but treat Friday (after 2nd fast) as my meaningful one.

Have abandoned nutracheck for MFP and it's great mostly but miss the ability to just go to a food and put in weight of my choice. I mostly cook from scratch so want to add say 247g carrot and not faff around with portions. Also there are lots of entries with spelling errors which will lead to duplication and confusion. Is there any way we can fix data other people have uploaded? (I will look online when time)

Hope everyone has a great weekend with lots of guilt free scoffing!

fluff @ your monster scenario.

Personal blog alert
Morning after my (almost) total fast.
Up early (obviously) and hungry. Breakfast is littered with danger. There's white bread and fruit loaf in my bread bin (as well as an unexpectedly opened back of Galaxy counters - thanks dh, found your father's day gift then ).
so I've just had coffee (mocha), vanilla yogurt with melon and a piece (plus a quarter) of fruit toast.
I know I'm "allowed" to eat what I want but I want to make nourishing choices and still find it hard to decide what to eat.
Out for lunch today (I think, no reservation ) so in a way that is a good thing; Lots of choice, no clearing out the back of the fridge and biscuit tin.

Well done sotired that's a good loss and no, that doesn't sound naff.

prawntoast When i have a stall i ^try^ (and fail and have a tantrum) to console myself that If it weren't for 5:2 I might well have gained. Also I try to think about the other health benefits (better be right about that Dr. M). Impressive to be cycling 3 x a week.

Hols on Monday. I'm considering fasting for the journey
How does everyone manage on holiday?

southeast I ^ love^ baking and it can be a pita at times.
So true about getting rid of food. I know it seems wasteful but it's just as wasteful to eat stuff I don't need isn't it? Our local toddler group has a regular bake sale and I make sure I fast on those days

Well done cooroo

Oh, I've abandoned mfp altogether. Last night I started with it and then gave up and grabbed 40 mins in the gym instead while the gooseberries were sleeping (dh was home, no need to call ss)

sta 16:8 is a different form of intermittent fasting, where you can eat but only in an 8 hr window. It sort of works to calorie restrict you because there's only so much you can eat in an 8 hour window! And it gives the magical 16h body repair window.

fluffy I'm not sure, it was the first time I'd tried it yesterday and it was a complete accident!

Ive done some fudging I work with numbers, can you tell and realised that last friday's elation may have been a little premature as I weighed after a fast day. So I've decided to change my official weigh in to the Thursday weight (as I was fasting that day so I weighed both days). I did lose last week and I've lost this week though only 2lb which for me is the smallest drop so far (though better than a gain as I would have if I count last Friday's weight). Still good though, look better, feel better and clothes fit better and that counts more really.

Very excited this morning to weigh in at 9.7 (just!), having started off around the 10.3 mark about 10 weeks ago. 1lb a week - perfect! And I have eaten more than my share of biscuits, pasta, cake and wine in the last few weeks, and I missed two fasts.

I have some routine blood tests in a couple of weeks when I will have been 5:2-ing for three months - can't wait to see if I've made a difference there as well!

Really helpful to hear about everyone else's experiences here.

Oh, but I at the business end of the squat challenge and as I just found out my drugs promote water retention so I'm guessing that's against me (and I ache so so much)

emily well done on the zero fast (I read somewhere that up to 15 cals is considered zero somewhere not vague at all, so you may be there). Not feeling brave enough for that yet, though I've taken the shiritake noodle route and eat a decent sized meal now plus a choccie bar. I reckon you need a treat on a fast day sometimes

Am a bit disappointed to be just quarter of a lb down this week. I've worked out though, that my BMI is now 20.38, so although I really wanted to lose another 2-3lb, I'm wondering whether I should just try to start maintaining at this weight. My clothes now fit properly, and it's as though my body doesn't really seem to want to lose anymore, iyswim! I have stuck ridgidly to 500kcal or less on FDs, and up to (but usually a couple of kcal under TDEE) on NFDs, and weight loss has pretty much stalled. Plus, I'm still breastfeeding 8 month old DD 4-5 times per day.

I'm going to continue with 5:2, at least while I work out how to maintain. I think that once I stopped bfing, my calorie needs will reduce, but then my boobs will shrink back to their usual AA status from a C , so I may lose some weight there [grin|.

so tired No, not naff at all I am the same. This is a very fast moving thread, and I get muddled too!

Well done for your loss so far, and good luck with your fast day today.

Food shopping sucks on a fast day

I've weighed in after a 36 hour fast, and am down to 8st13.5 - which means a loss of 4LBS this week! Wow, I am v happy.

I will admit that the 36 hour fast was tough - woke up at 5am this morning feeling v strange - weak, lightheaded, but I just gulped some water and went back to bed for a couple of hours. My last meal (dinner at 9pm on Weds night) before the fast was relatively light - 1.5 scrambled eggs with 1 slice wholegrain toast, followed by greek yoghurt with rhubarb compote. Then nothing apart from 3 cups of tea all day yesterday. I also did a Jillian Michaels Ripped in 30 workout and a 4 mile run yesterday as well.

Think I might celebrate by going to get a scone for 11ses (haven't had breakfast apart from cup of tea), and then try and wait until my DH gets back for supper tonight, which will be this cauliflower recipe and possibly some spiced quinoa as well. The cauliflower is really delicious, and the whole thing should be a nice low-cal meal, I think.

Wow, everyone's stories are inspiring! I like this thread very much.

I need some advice from the pros.

I did my first fast yesterday, I ate juts over 500 cals. I got through til 2.30 on 2 rice cakes and about 5 cups of various hot, milk-free teas. Then I suddenly came over all funny, hot and dizzy and fast heart. I had a moment of panic, thinking 'am I damaging myself by not eating?', but I'm fairly sure no-one ever died of not eating for a few hours... So (I was in a conference with free lunch provided) I ate the middle of a tuna sandwich, a couple of grapes and had half a glass of orange juice. That seemed to set me right. Has anyone else experienced anything similar, who could tell me what it was? Does it mean I should avoid fasting (I hope not, because I kind of enjoyed it, in a weird control-freak kind of way). It was like a stoned panic (a 'whitey', as we used to call them back in the hedonistic days of my youth).