The 5:2 Thread number 21! Soaking up the Sunshine

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

zombie I found that as the weeks have gone my body complains less. Some of it is just knowing what to expect and after a few successful fasts you will feel less anxious about it.

I drink tea with milk and glasses of water all day. If I'm feeling desperate I have a banana.

Usually I wake up the next morning not feeling particularly hungry.

Zombie your body will get used to it. I think the bodies mechanisms get lazy over time as they are used to being constantly fed. So for the first couple of fasts the body doesn't quite know what to do. You did the right thing eating a little bit, over time this will cese to be an issue.

hi guys, am a tad confused with the NFD's. Are we supposed to eat up to our TDEE calories?? I have been eating up to 1200 cals on NFD and relaxing at the weekend and prob eating up to my TDEE for those two days. I also work out twice a week so do you think I am eating too little?
Any advice would be very welcome as I am just not losing so something is awry somewhere.
T
x

angel yes, the idea is to eat up to TDEE on your NFDs. Though many eat below so they can go over on other days (banking the calories if you will). If you're not going over TDEE on weekends, and you're also not counting your exercise calories then definitely eat a bit more. Like many others say this is meant to be a way of life not just a diet, if you treat it like a diet it wont be sustainable anymore and you'll resent it.

Personally I don't eat to TDEE or 500 most of the time, I'm not far off it ever but I'm usually full before then (or on FD if I unleash the hunger monster if I try). Rarely I go over on any day either but I don't feel too guilty when I do either.

Hi Eagle, thanks so much I will defo try and up it in that case.
T
x

I've had a really weird week this week. Was ill last weekend and couldn't bring myself to eat anything other than a couple of mouthfuls of ice cream and a few bits of chocolate so Sat at least was an unplanned fast day!
However, since feeling better from Mon night I've been eating the entire contents of my kitchen, and then some which isn't so good. However, after all of this I've lost what I'd gained from holiday a couple of weeks ago.
Decided (after realising I can't do a proper fast until next Tuesday) that I'd fast today but have got a home made lamb chilli already defrosted for tea. I suspect that might be over 500 cals but shouldn't be too far over so I'll treat it like a fast day anyway.
Good luck to anyone else fasting today
And where are you headintheclouds, itsaboatjack and swallowedafly, I miss you!!

Well finally after 5 weeks of not losing anything I have lost 1/2lb! Yes that's it a measly 1/2 lb. So I have a new low now of 10st1.25. The 9's are getting closer but it's taking an age to get there. Oh well no rush I've got the rest if my life to get there!

Hi dotty glad you are feeling better. I know what you mean about eating contents of the kitchen, after an illness I think it's pretty normal to just want to eat.
Lamb chilli may go over a little but not much, remember to skim the fat off before you reheat that will get rid of a few of the calories.

skyler well done! However, bit concerned that you may not be eating enough on non fasting days? Your last meal before your fast day sounded very low cal and your planned dinner tonight also does? Realise that at your weight you probably don't have a very high TDEE but still....? . Tell me to mind my own business if you like but if all I'd eaten since teatime on Weds was a small portion of scrambled egg on toast and some fruit and yoghurt I'd think that today should be a day of good portions of tasty food - please don't skip lunch!

Just about to finish my 2nd coffee (taking it slowly) and bearing in mind the earlier smelly breath comment I'm off to thoroughly wash my mouth out! Not that my breath has knocked either kid out yet and I'm really trying

Thanks dotty! And thanks for your concern.

I try and be as good as I can on NFDs during the week, so I can relax somewhat at the weekend. I have had my yummy scone (with clotted cream and jam), and will have 2 scrambled eggs on 1 slice of toast for a late lunch (am in a bit of a scrambled egg phase at the moment, especially delicious with crushed chillies and some za'atar sprinkled on top). Don't worry, on the weekend I will not be watching what I eat.

36 hour fasts are tough, but great for dropping a good bit of weight quickly - I lost 2lbs overnight! I might do another one on Monday, along with a normal 500 cal fast probably on Thursday.

I had some food issues in the past (disordered eating rather than an eating disorder), and went down to 8st which in retrospect was not a good look for me. Have had CBT and regular psychotherapy to try and address these. It's the unknown of food that bothers me - not having it clear in my mind what I will eat each day. Having a fridge full of food is something that I struggle with. So I have found that 5:2 actually helps me to relax around food - I am clear that this is what I am eating on each day, and I don't have to fret about it too much.

Skyler - ah, you hadn't mentioned the jam and clotted cream additions to your scone. In that case, as you were !
I know what you mean about it helping with disordered eating. I have often had an unhealthy relationship with food, using it to de-stress or comfort myself. This week, with work stress and recovering from illness, showed me that I can still be prone to that! However, 5:2 (and the menu planning that I now do each week) definitely helps me to take control of it, rather than it (food) controlling me.

Skylerwhite (love the name!) - thanks for that link! All the recipes look good and I've bookmarked it.

Zombie, you will adapt!

Well guys, the plateau has stopped at last. After about four weeks of no loss, which led to boredom with the woe, I took a week or so off. During this, I was on holiday abroad - lots of wine, nice food etc, but also enormous amounts of cycling and walking so an exercise boost.

First fast after the break was yesterday and was much easier as I had had a break from it - no probs at all. This morning I have really shifted and have gone from a plateau of 10.6-10.4 to ...... 10.1 1/2! I have not been this weight for longer than I care to remember.

Message is stick with it, make a change or have a break. :)

zombie just thought I'd add, I only started fasting a couple of weeks ago, but am not good at going long periods without food so I usually have a GIANT salad at lunch with lots of lettuce, cucumber, a few cherry tomatoes and some grated carrot which comes in at around 60 cals and keeps me feeling nice and full without busting the calorie bank. If I'm still hungry after that I have an apple for another 45 cals or so, leaving 400 ish for dinner. If I felt rubbish on fast days there's no way I'd stick to this! You just have to find what works for you... :)

PS: well done brambles great to hear a lovely holiday broke the plateau, and congrats to ELR as well - I know it's only 1/2 a lb, but at least it's a loss and gets you on the move again!

Well, I decided that I couldn't continue off the plan for much longer, regardless of this blasted sore throat that is in to its third week. The scales were creeping up daily, and I have put on an obscene amount of weight in these last few weeks.

I'm a little disappointed, not of the pounds per se, but because it's clear that, even though I've been on this Woe for a few months, I didn't 'learn' anything to keep me going when I wasn't fasting. I'm actually quite annoyed with myself for allowing that to happen. The last thing I wanted from this WOL was to get that feeling of 'well, I'm not on the diet anymore so I'll stuff my face'. Yes, looks like a lifetime of 'disordered eating' cannot be undone in such a short time.

BUT, back on a fast day today (first in weeks) and I'm enjoying it (sort of...), and as it's not making a blind bit of difference to my sore throat one way or another, there's no excuse not to get back on track.

So, I've neglected this thread for a while, but I'm back with my tail between my legs, and a HEFTY amount of weight to drop to even get back to where I was a month ago.

I think I will attempt 5:2 and 4:3, instead of ADF. I probably need a change and ADF may have got too much.

aka welcome back on board and don't worry, once you're back on track it'll soon start coming off again .

aka don't worry about it at all, sometimes when we're ill our bodies work against us. Takes a lot of mental strength to say 'oi! body! sod off'

Random DD kidnapping from MIL so I popped out with DS and decided to give myself a treat. What could I possibly treat myself to on a fast day? Diet coke. Yep, I rock!

haha Eagle, funny what can constitute a treat on a fast day! I've got cider in the fridge. It's going to take every ounce of willpower I possess to resist that....

Weekly weigh in, weight has gained about .4 kg. I seem to fluctuating between 74.5 and 74.0 and this has been going on for three weeks now.

I've lost over 12 kg so far so I'm not complaining but it is annoying after weeks of losing one or two pounds that this now happening, anyone been through something similar? If so how lond does this last or how do you get it to stop? I started waking to work a few times in the last week (2 miles each way, about three times last week) but still my weight went up this week

Thanks Evyone, good luck to the fasters

Hi all,
Weighed in today after a heavy week of work (I'm self employed) and I'm holding steady at half a pound under the target I hit last December.
Those who have been on these threads for a while will know that left to my own devices I'm a gym bunny - but when I'm working I'm sedentary.

So, how have I done it?
Two strict fasts a week - Monday and either Wednesday or Thursday
No booze during the week (Monday to Thursday)
Not eating breakfast in the week (no change from the last 30 years)
No snacking - EVER
and : my coup de grace - on non fast days, I like leaving leeway for a nice supper, so I've been having two carrots chopped into chunks and some fruit for my lunch - because they take ages to eat and give great salivary satisfaction
and then I can have things like eggs florentine or chicken stew and home made oven chips for supper

OR
to cut a long post short
STOP SNACKING
and actively skip some meals so that you can really enjoy others

zombie I find fasting much easier now than n the early weeks. You did well.

angle how long have you been on 5:2? It might just take a bit more time.

skyler "yum" at scone and cream. I read that this morning and then fell victim to a tantalising Belgian bun whilst out with the DCs, stopping for a "milk break"

aka welcome back. I couldn't do ADF. You'll be fine on 5:2 I reckon.

posh one of the things I found interesting was dr m's remarks about exercise. Obviously it's good for us (yadda yadda) but studies definitely seem to show that when we excercise we eat more and often treat ourselves (secret eater style) to high calorie rewards. So it seems that sometimes exercise = wt gain when we least expect it. In a couple of weeks I bet that extra bit has melted away.

brambles hurrah!

NFD today. Still snacking (sorry TIP ) and not counting calories.
Anyway, I've had a 20lb loss in about 9 or 10 weeks. I think I've been very lucky.

posh could the muscle gain from walking be adding up to more than the weight loss from fat?

tip I'm almost the same except I have filling but low cal brekkies and lunches so I can have a nice dinner and wine/beer (but I still have on week nights, but then I rarely go over 1 drink and not every night - oh how this woe has changed me). This works well for me and mine, I make sure my kids eat better than miss fussy pants here anyway and oh isn't suffering 'diet' food in the night - oh's version of diet food is not what a normal person would constitute diet food!

Actually fasting used to ensure that I didn't drink for 2 nights a week, but I somehow ended up only having 300 calories today including a main course and yesterday's treat dessert so I'm sitting here with a nice . Only feel secure enough to have it as I've had 2 courses, will probably revert to not drinking on fast nights!

Emily what's a Belgian bun?

The scone and cream were v v yummy, but I have been feeling v full ever since, and can't really face making or eating dinner. I don't want to chronically undereat on my NFDs (and I reckon I've at about 900 calls today), but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to eat if I don't feel hungry. If I've understood this WOE correctly, it is at least partly about figuring out how to listen to your body and figure out how only to eat when you're actually hungry.

TIP I've been thinking a lot about your no snacking mantra, and rtying actively to incorporate that into my 'off days' (weekends) and my NFDs. I guess it's a way of mindful rather than mindless eating. I like it